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Messages - edmac

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1
The Common Room / Re: The future of genealogy
« on: Saturday 28 May 22 20:16 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Guy Etchells on Saturday 28 May 22 15:52 BST (UK)
Quote from: edmac on Saturday 28 May 22 12:58 BST (UK)
Quote from: Guy Etchells on Friday 27 May 22 12:11 BST (UK)
Quote from: lydiaann on Wednesday 25 May 22 16:43 BST (UK)

I suggest that every serious family historian or genealogist publish their finding in a stem book or family tree book and donate at least one copy of it to the copyright library (legal deposit library) of their country.

The UK legal deposit library is the British Library, London but there are actually six more in the UK.
The National Library of Scotland, The National Library of Wales, The Bodleian Library University of Oxford, Cambridge University Library and The Library of Trinity College Dublin.

If such a deposit is done then future generations of your family will be able to access the work you have done recording your family history.


Guy, in practical terms, are you suggesting a published book?.  I may be wrong but surely the depositories you mention will require an ISBN to include a book on their catalogue?  I actually produced a descendant chart(list) and had it published on Amazon, bought sufficient copies for the relatives at a reunion, and then withdrew it from public sale because it included living people. To be honest it did not occur to me to send to the British libary!!  Mea culpa, must do better next time.

Sorry but you are wrong, a book does not require an ISBN as the British Library states "If your publications do not have an ISBN or ISSN, you still need to deposit them.

The requirement to deposit an item does not depend on its having been allocated an International Standard Book Number (ISBN) or Serial Number (ISSN), but on whether or not it can be considered to have been published. A work is said to have been published when copies of it are issued to the public.

The place of publication or printing, the nature of the imprint and size of distribution are immaterial. It is the act of issuing or distributing to the public in the United Kingdom which renders a work liable for deposit."

Full details at http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rkp/

Incidentally the mailing address of the legal Deposit Office is:-

Legal Deposit Office
The British Library
Boston Spa
Wetherby
West Yorkshire LS23 7BY

Full details on the website, url listed above, those who offer charts etc., online may be advised to take a look also.
Cheers
Guy
Unfortunately Guy I have suffered for many years as a pedant;-)
 Is there a definition of "issued to the publ;ic" ? Were my copies given away at a family reunion issued to the public and therefore requiring a deposit?  This is not a subject I have studied. I have known of the Legal deposit Office, obviously for many years but thought it only referred to "published Books".  I always stand to be corrected.    regards  Ed>

cheesrs  Edc

2
The Common Room / Re: The future of genealogy
« on: Saturday 28 May 22 12:58 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Guy Etchells on Friday 27 May 22 12:11 BST (UK)
Quote from: lydiaann on Wednesday 25 May 22 16:43 BST (UK)

I suggest that every serious family historian or genealogist publish their finding in a stem book or family tree book and donate at least one copy of it to the copyright library (legal deposit library) of their country.

The UK legal deposit library is the British Library, London but there are actually six more in the UK.
The National Library of Scotland, The National Library of Wales, The Bodleian Library University of Oxford, Cambridge University Library and The Library of Trinity College Dublin.

If such a deposit is done then future generations of your family will be able to access the work you have done recording your family history.


Guy, in practical terms, are you suggesting a published book?.  I may be wrong but surely the depositories you mention will require an ISBN to include a book on their catalogue?  I actually produced a descendant chart(list) and had it published on Amazon, bought sufficient copies for the relatives at a reunion, and then withdrew it from public sale because it included living people. To be honest it did not occur to me to send to the British libary!!  Mea culpa, must do better next time.

3
The Common Room / Re: The future of genealogy
« on: Thursday 26 May 22 17:17 BST (UK)  »
Stormi, I take your point but wish I was as sanguine as you.  Like yourself I fill in details on my public tree and make notes on sources which are in error or mistranscribed. My tree is as accurate as I have been able to make it and I know that what I am passing on is correct. But how does one mark that kind of tree to show that it has been researched as against those which contain large chunks copied from trees on geni and my heritage which erroneously purport to show that my GGG grandfather from Dumfries was a descendant of Robert the Bruce?
I wish I knew the answer to that, but then again, at my age why should I care?

4
The Common Room / Re: The future of genealogy
« on: Thursday 26 May 22 11:34 BST (UK)  »
In the olden days when I was a regular visitor to family history centres to go through fiche and films of parish records, I used to bore others with my view that I was a family historian and not a genealogist (ignoring the geneologists!).  I maintained then and still do that they are two different things, genealogy is essential to the family history but many so-called genealogists are not interested in family or social history which is the background to our ancestor's families lives.  So many family trees are being created and posted on the various sites which are just the results of sometimes dubious dna results and not of the patient research required for a proper ancestral family tree.  I could go on and on.....

5
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Can anyone help
« on: Thursday 20 December 18 22:38 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: MonicaL on Wednesday 28 November 18 14:09 GMT (UK)
Also, there is a family tree on a/try that you could check (you need a subs to view it www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/28350218/person/12037695199/facts?ssrc=

They show another potential sister called Jane/Jean (common first name variants) born c. 1794 in Glencairn. Jane is listed as having married twice, a Joseph Milligan and then an Alan Burgess.
Her death is showing as being on 19 Dec 1878 in Balmaclellan, Kirkcudbrightshire.

No details on her parents included unfortunately  :-\

Not sure how you can verify that these two women, Margaret and Jane, are sisters to your William. Sometimes occupation on a death cert for a father can help. If it shows as agricultural labourer...not a lot of comfort there really  ::)

Monica

A death recorded in Scotland in 1878 would normally include both parents names?

6
The Common Room / Re: Entering same man with two names and two families at same time
« on: Wednesday 21 November 18 10:34 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Lady Di on Wednesday 21 November 18 08:35 GMT (UK)
Quote from: edmac on Tuesday 20 November 18 16:48 GMT (UK)
…
 In this instance it would not be a case of falsification of the record, because there are no records. I know that it is the same man because of what I have been told by a credible witness …

Cheers. Ed

With apologies - I'm a little confused.

You say that there are no records - it's all heresay told to you by a credible witness; BUT didn't all this happen over 100 years ago?

How would anyone know what days the man in question stayed at which house?
If he had children by both "wives", is his name on all birth certificates?
Aren't birth certs classified as "records"?

 ???

I think I will go along with Guy and call it a day. I didn't realise that this subject could create such angst.
To clarify ,yes it happened more than a century ago. The birth certificates I have seen for weekend family has the father's name that he used there but I have not seen any for the weekday family but assume that they would bear the name he used in that location.  My information about how he divided his week came from a grandson who was told by his father and uncle about their life as children.

Whilst  "no man is an island" we still have to make our own decisions. I think it unreasonable to be expected to even attempt to forcast the reaction of some unknown person at some unspecified time in the future to any piece of information.  That way lies madness. It is difficult enough in these times to do the right thing for our living relatives.

Regards. Ed

7
The Common Room / Re: Entering same man with two names and two families at same time
« on: Tuesday 20 November 18 22:28 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Kiltpin on Tuesday 20 November 18 21:03 GMT (UK)
Quote from: edmac on Tuesday 20 November 18 20:19 GMT (UK)
Yes I am careful that all the information recorded in my own database is correct and fully documented but I have yet to see a convincing argument that I am under any obligation to make it publicly available.

Cheers. Ed


If you have no intention of putting the information in the public domain, why are you collecting it?



Regards

Chas


Would you believe I am a family historian?

8
The Common Room / Re: Entering same man with two names and two families at same time
« on: Tuesday 20 November 18 20:19 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 20 November 18 17:52 GMT (UK)
You might find the following pages interesting-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n29/
and
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01n2a/

Finally generally there is no criminal liability for lying by omission (though there are certain situations when there is) it comes under a moral obligation rather than criminal law.

But remember; lying by omission breeds mistrust, in the case of a known fact left from a family tree/history that could render the entire family tree/history in jeopardy as people would wonder what had been missed out or even amended to ease the way.

Cheers
Guy

I am not convinced that either of those articles are particularly relevant. If we go down the philosophical route there are numerous articles on the "law of unintendedly consequences" which could be cited.  As I don't know any of the members of the weekday family who are only remotely connected to my tree I cannot have any responsibility to them.  Yes I am careful that all the information recorded in my own database is correct and fully documented but I have yet to see a convincing argument that I am under any obligation to make it publicly available.

Cheers. Ed

9
The Common Room / Re: Entering same man with two names and two families at same time
« on: Tuesday 20 November 18 16:48 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you both for your thoughts.  Like yourself,Guy, I have been researching for a long time. Lost count of the children born before wedlock, (not remarkable today) couples not marrying (even less remarkable) a grandfather serving six months in Manchester Gail, another failing to support his family due to drink and so on. It's family history and little to get anxious about, especially after a century or more but I am aware that others are not as sanguine. In this instance it would not be a case of falsification of the record, because there are no records. I know that it is the same man because of what I have been told by a credible witness but it I don't publish that information no one will know once I am gone.  But is it important to anyone outside of the two families? Does anyone need to know?

Still thinking about it.

Cheers. Ed

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