Another opinion needed please

[Tuppie]

Hi.

You can't always assume that they couldn't write just because they made their mark X.

I have a Greatgrandmother who signed her name on the marriage certificate in 1855 and on the first two birth certificates of her offspring. She then chose to make her mark on the following two and signed her name on the last one.

If they were told to "make their mark" perhaps thats what they did.

Regards

Tuppie

[lesleyhannah]

That's very interesting, because I'm really having problems finding another William who died round about that time. Of course, the death cert age could be unreliable - or so could the census. I'm not sure - I wish there was an address on the death cert.
But thanks for that - it's another possibility.

[Jane Eden]

Hi Lesley

Facts:
John Henson and Elizabeth Garner married Wysall are the correct people.
Johns father is called William.

Questions:
Before you got the 1841 census - Did you know John had a sister Sarah who was a school mistress and that Mary existed?
How do you know that William living next door is Johns father?
What is Johns occupation?
Have you got Johns baptism/birth details?What are the addresses on the marriage cert for John and Elizabeth?
You say you are having trouble finding other William Hensons that fit. Where have you looked?
Have you been to the archives in Nottingham?

This area of Nottingham about 10miles from the city is made up of villages, well it was then. The baptisms are not on the NFHSCD and the BMDs may not have been put online yet as they are small churches. The questions above are to clarify your thinking and find what is fact and what is supposition. Of course William next door is probably Johns father but he may not be. Post the answers to the questions above even if they are all negative and then we can think of the next steps. We should be able to crack it eventually.

Jane

[lesleyhannah]

Thanks, Jane. Those questions are what I needed to sort things out.

I don't have the baptism details for John or Elizabeth. On their marriage cert it says full age; I'm taking their ages from the censuses. The 1861 census has JOhn born about 1808/9. (supposition).

On the marriage cert the only address given for John is Keyworth.

John was a stocking maker like his father (fact).

So really the only fact I have about William is he is old enough to be JOhn's father (john born about 1808), is a stockinger, and was alive in 1839 when his son was married. As John came from Keyworth and was living there in 1861 and onwards I'm GUESSING that's where his father lived too.

The only William of the correct sort of age in Keyworth in 1841 is living next door to John so again I'm GUESSING it's his father. The FWK fits in too - but practically everyone was a FWK as far as I can see.

The Sarah was new to me when I got the 1841 census, and I thought although she was 20 years his junior she could have been a second wife. I was also unsure about the relationship of the 9 year old child Mary Wright. However subsequent censuses have all found Mary and Sarah living together - Sarah is head of the household always described as unmarried, not widowed, and Mary is described as her niece. As Mary wasn't a Henson I assume she was a daughter of Sarah's (unknown) sister.

I'm unlikely to ever get to Nottingham, and don't know the area at all so I am reliant on the Internet. John and Elizabeth were married at Wysall CofE church - Elizabeth came from Wysall.

So - you've made me face the fact there's quite a bit of supposition in my thinking. Maybe I was afraid of this, which is why I asked for another opinion.

So any more opnions are more than welcome - my head's spinning now!

Thanks to everyone who's helped so far.

[Jane Eden]

Hi Lesley

On the 1851 census are these yours? John 43, Elizabeth 37, Elizabeth 10, Sarah 7, Joseph 5.

Then at least I know I have the right family.

Jane

[lesleyhannah]

Yes, that's the right family. Elizabeth was born Garner. By 1861 they also had William and John.

[Jane Eden]

Hi Lesley

Have you noticed John is a bag hosier employing 12 men rather than a FWK. He was obviously doing very well. In the 1850s over half the village were chapel rather than CofE especially the FWK.

A couple of sites are interesting: 
www.keyworth-history.org.uk  this gives info on Keyworth and Wysall.

http://southwellchurches.nottingham.ac.uk/k02/hhistory.html gives Keyworth history & St Mary Magdalene

If you become interested in FWK etc. I have lots of information and links.

Back to the people. Put a post on Nottingham Look up requests for the baptism of John in 1808/09 in Keyworth. Also a seperate request for the death of William between 1841-1851 in Keyworth, reg district Bingham. People have other resources than parish records and may be able to find these. This will narrow the search down and will make a visit to the archives easier.

Once this has been done I think the only way forward is a trip to the archives to search the Parish records. I cannot think of any other way. I know you cannot get there, I don't know where you are but it isn't Nottingham. I go to the archives often and I don't generally advertise to do look ups as I work full time but I do look things up if I feel there is good reason. So now we have narrowed it down I wil have a look for you and see what I can find. As you get to the 1700s from the 1800s the registers are not always brilliant but we will see.

Jane

[lesleyhannah]

Thank you, Jane. That is very kind of you. I haven't seen the 1851 entry for John but find it odd. In 1861 he is a Glove framework Knitter, Elizabeth his wife is a glove stitcher.

I wish I did know Nottingham - in 1861 they're living in Town Street Keyworth. I wonder if that was a comedown from wherever he was living in 1851? They've certainly lost any wealth they might have had.

By 1861 John is dead, and his widow is living in Nottingham Road working as a FWK.

I will take up your suggestions about the Nottingham look up.

Thanks again - I couldn't have got half as far as I have without the help of people on this site.

Lesley

[Jane Eden]

Hi Lesley

You say in 1861 John is dead. I think you mean 1871. If that is so a possible date is:

Burial John Henson 4/10/1863 age 54 Keyworth  NFHSCD Burials

Maybe he had semi retired as 52 would have been old. It would be warp lace silk gloves/mitts that he would have been making. Its amazing as I don't suppose they had glasses in those days and the work would be very fine and often by candlelight magnified through a bowl of liquid, a bit like a goldfish bowl.

Jane