Author Topic: Bastard Children and Baptisms  (Read 6421 times)

Offline nutkin

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Bastard Children and Baptisms
« on: Sunday 29 August 04 00:28 BST (UK) »
I just was made aware that one of my ancestors was illegitmate and wonder how to find out more on her .  I am rather excited becasue my tree has been hardy farm laborers.

Ann Whisker (also spelled Whiscar) had an illegitimate daughter  Elizabeth Whisker bapt on May 6, 1798 in Welwick.  Elizabeth went on to marry Jospeh Shields in 1826 in Kingston upon Hull.  They lived a quite life where he worked as a warehouse manager. 

I have Jospeh and Elizabeth Shields in the 1851 Census living in Hull, St. Mary's on High Street.  AT the time a John Whisker was living with them who was the son of an Elizabeth Whisker b. in 1823 in Cottingham. I am betting just before the marriage to Joseph, Elizabeth had a son.  SO wouldn't her current husband be mad to have her illegitamate child living with them?

I am crazy to find out more about the Whisker women.  Was children out of wedlock common for the time? And I am suprised to have found baptism records for these children.  It seems to be the family business to have children out of wedlock for the Whisker women.  I think of them as suffragetts of the 18th century.

Any help on where to turn fo more info or how to find more on the Whiskers would be so helpful!!

-Nutkin ;D
George William Burke.. my missing link!! son of Wm Burke & Mary Jane Stone/Morris
Shields & Milner- Patrington  & Bilton, Yorkshire
Nixon & Bowers - Appleby, Broughton & Messingham, Lincolnshire
Hancock &Tyson- Tetford, Skendleby & Spilsby, Lincolnshire
Cochrane- Darvel, Loudon, Ayrshire
Yuill, Hardie- Paisley, Renfrewshire
Kennedy, Gardener & Clelland- Glasgow, Lanarkshire & Paisley, Renfrewshire

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchive

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Offline Darcy

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 29 August 04 04:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Nutkin, :D

I am amazed by how many illigitimate children seem to have been about in the 19th century† :o

I always thought it was a no-no but I think the terrible shame of being born out of wedlock must have arrived with the Victorian era.

My 2nd great grandmother had an illigimate son, at age 16, who died† of Whooping Cough at just 8 weeks. I have tried hard to find out information as to who his father was.

I applied to Lincolnshire Archives for his Baptism and Burial details but the only extra information was that his mother was a spinster.

I also tried for Bastardy Bonds but had no luck† - I just kept digging away and I believe I found the answer.

When I received a copy of the 1851 census which showed 2nd great gran aged 6 - there he was a few doors away aged 8 - the man she is living with on the 1871 census 10 years later! They have a 7 month old son with the same Christian name as the baby who died.

So, you never know your luck even when it all looks hopeless ;D

Try for the Baptism details - you might be luckier than me!

Good Luck

Aaron :D

Fisher, Pitts, Lucas, Emmit, Keal, Bennett, Maddock, Jackson, Pidd, Lincolnshire
Bullock, Read, White, Gloucestershire.
Shepherd, Foyle, Crowter, Green, Wiltshire
Strickland, Fisher, Butterworth, Brown, Northhamptonshire
Shepherd, Bullock, Waterhouse, Lancashire
Fisher, Goodwin, Rutland



 Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Jane Masri

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 29 August 04 07:26 BST (UK) »
Hi Nutkin,
Like Aaron, I was amazed at how many children were born out of wedlock in centuries past!
Had you thought that perhaps the John Whisker living with them in 1851 WAS the son of Joseph, but they had not yet decided to marry?  The parish records would only show her name as the mother, even though she might know who the father was, it wouldn't be registered.
I have only one case, where the mother has had the illigetimate daughter baptised in her name with the father being mentioned & that's in 1841 and the daughter uses her mother's surname throughout her life.
Jane
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Offline Darcy

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 29 August 04 09:24 BST (UK) »
In the PR's I found such things as comments by the vicar or parish clerk, 'Jane, bastard daughter of Mary ******,a notorius woman of easy virtue,baptised this day' and 'Thomas ****** buried this day,married three times, 18 children legit. and 7 children illegit. a drunkkard[sic] whoremaster and gambeller[sic]aged 84 a pauper,may the Lord have mercy on his wicked soule.

Hey Jane  :D

Remember this one which was poster by Tom Gaunt?
What a vicar!!! ;D ;D

Aaron
Fisher, Pitts, Lucas, Emmit, Keal, Bennett, Maddock, Jackson, Pidd, Lincolnshire
Bullock, Read, White, Gloucestershire.
Shepherd, Foyle, Crowter, Green, Wiltshire
Strickland, Fisher, Butterworth, Brown, Northhamptonshire
Shepherd, Bullock, Waterhouse, Lancashire
Fisher, Goodwin, Rutland



 Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline pete_uk

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 29 August 04 10:01 BST (UK) »
Nutkin,

Have you seen the actual register entry? In some parishes the vicar would add details such as 'father reputed to be John Smith'.

Also if the mother was 'on the parish' I think there would have been an attempt to identify the father - a bit like the Child Support Agency nowadays. Worth checking with the local records office, who may still have the papers.

Hope this helps,
Pete

Offline suey

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 29 August 04 14:36 BST (UK) »

My 3 x G Grandpa had 11 known illegitimate children with one lady, they were all baptised but confusingly some took his surname the others hers.. :-\
I will have a look at the Parish Reg's when I get a chance, I'd love to know if the Vicar had any comment to make
Suey
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Offline Chris in 1066Land

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 29 August 04 15:12 BST (UK) »
Hi

My grandmother never married my grandfather

She couldn't - he was already married with 11 children - at the same time giving my grandmother 3 known children - then he left them both 1906 and dissappeared.

This made my father a 'bastard' child, which means I am 'a son of a bastard' - wife said she knew that all the time. :-X

Found grandads death in 1944 - amongst other things on his death certificate were the words 'Cancer of the p e n i s' - now - is that poetic justice or what?

(Had to write it like that to get it past the automatic censor)

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 29 August 04 15:16 BST (UK) »
Bastards, †now there's a thought. †It wasn't such a big no no until the victorian era when moral values changed. †Before that period it was very common especially where the master of some house got his servants pregnant.

How to find out more? †As already mentioned some PR's hold interesting anecdotes but this isn't common it depends on the vicar or more likely the clerks. †Then there are Bastardy bonds but these were not always carried through. †Also the overseer's of the poor accounts may hold some interesting facts.

Off the top of my head One father of an illigit child was made to pay to the overseer of the Poor £2 5s for the cost of this childs upkeep whilst he was absent and he was to pay until the child was no longer a burden on the parish ( usually when he became of age to wrok) 2 shillings per week. †Surprisingly the mother was made to pay 1s a week. †

It also lists whether the father named had any objections to the child being his blood.


Offline nutkin

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 29 August 04 16:24 BST (UK) »
The woman who looked at the original parish record did not see any notes other than Elizabeth Whisker illegit daughter of Ann Whisker.  Additionally, The man whose name was John Whisker was listed as a border in the house in 1851. however, he worked with his mother's husband in the same place.  I am hoping to get a hold of the 1841 Census to see if he is there.

Can I ask a rather dense question?  What are bastardy bonds?  I have not heard of them.

I thank you all for giving me sopme great ideas.  I never thought of how 21st century morals and ideas would differ from teh early 19thc.  You have all opened my eyes. 

One thing I have to find out is someone down the Whisker line must have been a male to sire all these Whisker woman who had children out of wedlock!
-Nutkin :D
George William Burke.. my missing link!! son of Wm Burke & Mary Jane Stone/Morris
Shields & Milner- Patrington  & Bilton, Yorkshire
Nixon & Bowers - Appleby, Broughton & Messingham, Lincolnshire
Hancock &Tyson- Tetford, Skendleby & Spilsby, Lincolnshire
Cochrane- Darvel, Loudon, Ayrshire
Yuill, Hardie- Paisley, Renfrewshire
Kennedy, Gardener & Clelland- Glasgow, Lanarkshire & Paisley, Renfrewshire

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchive