Author Topic: Bastard Children and Baptisms  (Read 6419 times)

Offline GRACELAND

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #18 on: Monday 30 August 04 08:56 BST (UK) »
wops  ;D im not worried just thoght some one else might be !!!!!!!!!!!!
                                ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
God Knew Elvis was Tired so he called him to rest !................
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Offline MrsLizzy

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #19 on: Monday 30 August 04 11:26 BST (UK) »
My great great great grandmother Fanny Layton Culling had at least four illegitimate children, all apparently by the same man.  I did think it was Walter J Green, but it seems more likely it was his older brother Josiah, whose existence only turned up recently.

Apparently, the Victorian custom with illegitimate children was to give them their father's surname as a given name.  So Fanny's children were:

Josiah Green Culling
James Green Culling
Charles Winchester Green Culling
Ada Anne Green Culling

I gather that at least with the youngest two, they were taken in, possibly after Fanny's death in 1867, by their father's sister Martha, who'd just married for the second time - she and her husband William Giesen adopted Charles as their son - and Mrs Ann Green, a well off widow, took on Ada and brought her up from a very little girl until Ada's suicide in 1881.

I really hope eventually I can track down Josiah and James, as well as their father Josiah Green.  I am assuming he didn't marry Fanny because he was already married to someone else - either that or it was because she was of lower social status and either he or the family wouldn't countenance it.
Connell (Mayo & Lancs 19th/20th c) Culling (Norfolk & London 19th c) Diss (Essex) Giesen (UK only 19th/20th c) Hackney (London) Henbest (Kent & Sussex) Hughes (Mayo to Burnley, Lancs & Edward, Parachute Regiment 40s, 50s) Lister (London) Maltby (Marylebone) Mayo (Glos) Nials Noquet (Huguenot) Phillips (S London) Poulain (France & London) Rayner (Halstead, Essex) Pratt (Kent & Sussex) Redfearn (London) Silk Speller (Rodings, Essex) Thompson (S London) Thurley Trundle Wade Westley

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Offline D ap D

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 01 September 04 11:13 BST (UK) »
I have been trying to find the parents of a certain Jane (surname unknown), born 1803. I have just obtained a copy of the Parish records where for 1803 there were 3 Janes baptised, 1 of which had BASE noted next to the name. The surname given was Williams (written in capi-tals) with Morris next to it in brackets. The names of both mother and father were given, mother being Elizabeth Williams, father being John Morris.

No marriage is recorded for this pair not previously (obviously) and not subsequently either, and there are also no further children recorded. Luckily for me though, with the fathers name being entered, and the name John Morris being given to the eldest son for the next 3 generati-ons, is confirmation enough for me that I have the right one.
Stuck with:
William Williams of Llanllyfni
John Jones in Llanelli
Evan Evans in Caio
David Davies of Llansanffraid
Evans: Caio/Carms
Jones: CDG, DEN

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Nick Carver

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 01 September 04 12:50 BST (UK) »
Thought I would add my three ha'pence worth. I've just finished transcribing the parish baptism records from 1566 to date and there are some decided trends, not all of which have already been raised in this thread.

From the late 1600s to mid 1700s, the father's name was recorded on the register. Even if in one case the parish clerk felt the need to add 'or so she sayeth'. After that the child often had a different name to its mother - perhaps an indication of who might have been the father without his being named. Later still, the child would tend to have a middle name that looks suspiciously like a surname.

I would estimate the number of illegitmate births as being pretty constant at about 5-10% in my rural Cambs village. I don't know how typical this was. Multiple illegimate births to the same mother are extremely rare, although one woman in the 1700s had three.

The comments from the clerk can be most illuminating. I particularly liked the comments against the funeral of a girl who was both shot and stabbed by her fiance. It said that he was captured and taken to Cambridge to be executed which was entirely appropriate because he had awful smallpox scars. Quite properly, being scarred by smallpox was seen as being worse than murdering someone.
E Yorks - Carver, Steels, Cross, Maltby, Whiting, Moor, Laybourn
W Yorks - Wilkinson, Kershaw, Rawnsley, Shaw
Norfolk - Carver, Dowson
Cheshire - Berry, Cooper
Lincs - Berry
London/Ireland/Scotland/Lincs - Sullivan
Northumberland/Durham - Nicholson, Cuthbert, Turner, Robertson
Berks - May
Beds - Brownell

Offline suey

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 01 September 04 15:11 BST (UK) »

Mrs Lizzie - Your comments are very interesting, I have a family where the boys all have the middle name Bridger, think I will have to have a closer look at them, I was'nt able to find a marriage for their mother and 'father'.  Seems likely after reading your post that they wer'nt his.  Also the surname did not tie up with either set of Grandparents.

I seem to have more than my fare share of unwed mothers, I spose there was'nt much else to do on the dark nights in rural Sussex   ;D
Suey
All census lookups are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline Boongie Pam

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 01 September 04 15:19 BST (UK) »
I posted a link yesterday that had analysis for 1831 in Scotland

http://www.rootschat.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10542.0

and the top percentage was 8% funnily this was in Kirkcudbright & Dumfriesshire where all my lot are from!

Anyway a side issue I noticed last night whilst transcribing the Scots/Carruthers/Farish from the Annan OPR is that a child was normally baptised within a month of their birth but illegitimate children were nearly always a year plus later.  No idea why?  Does anyone else?  Was this the parish trying to find the father?

Pam
 ;D
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
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Offline peterbennett

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 08 September 04 16:19 BST (UK) »
Hi
      No point in trying to hide the fact of illegitimate children from this census enumerator in 1851, there are at least 7 other examples of being named and shamed in the same small village.

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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Offline nutkin

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 08 September 04 17:26 BST (UK) »
Immagine having that listed as your occuaption?!

I have noticed in the Census that alot of older persons having a grandchild in their houshold.  I am curious how common this was and if the child was potentially illegit?  I have a 70 year old set of parents in Hull  having a 2 year old either daughter or grandaughter but no other housholders which seems odd.  I

 guess parents could have died or child is a miracle birth for a 68 year old woman.  However, not the fist time I cam accross and wondered if parents raised illegit grandchildre?
George William Burke.. my missing link!! son of Wm Burke & Mary Jane Stone/Morris
Shields & Milner- Patrington  & Bilton, Yorkshire
Nixon & Bowers - Appleby, Broughton & Messingham, Lincolnshire
Hancock &Tyson- Tetford, Skendleby & Spilsby, Lincolnshire
Cochrane- Darvel, Loudon, Ayrshire
Yuill, Hardie- Paisley, Renfrewshire
Kennedy, Gardener & Clelland- Glasgow, Lanarkshire & Paisley, Renfrewshire

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchive

Offline peterbennett

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 08 September 04 17:36 BST (UK) »
Hi
   Grandparents raising a grandchild was not uncommen in fact it was very common in the 1800 & early 1900's and nothing to do with being legit or not, but purely a matter of economics and caring for the elderly, I have one ancester who spent the first 25 years of her life living with gran while her mum was only in the next street.

peterbennett
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
www.NationalArchives.gov.uk
Cheshire BMD  www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
Cheshire Wills database http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/recordoffice/wills/Search.htm
Cheshire family history society  www.fhsc.org.uk/
Cheshire Records Office http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.tm

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