Author Topic: Bastard Children and Baptisms  (Read 6420 times)

Offline newbie

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 09 September 04 15:20 BST (UK) »
HI,
I have several instances where the grandchild is with the grandparents for several census, although the birth parents (married) are living in the same street, maybe because of economics or perhaps an overcrowding issue?
A
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Offline AndyH2

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #28 on: Monday 13 September 04 00:18 BST (UK) »
In my never-ending search for Hedg(e)cocks (One-name-Study) I came across Ann born Maldon 1850, in the 1881 census as unmarried Head of the house, age 31, to five Hedgcocks aged between 2 and 12. First thought was step-sister, something along those lines.

The 1891 census has her as Single, Mother of Children, and a further 4 children!! Head of the house is one William White, the Captain of a Barge. Ann's 3rd son is a cook on a Barge. Same Barge??? Is he the one???

1901 sees her widowed and a dressmaker with her own account - she's had no occupation before (I'm not surprised with all those children - she had 11 in the end!) And she's back to being the Head of the Household.

I've got one child's birth certificate but there's nothing for the father - I suspect this will be the same on any of the birth or marriage certs. She's stayed in the same area all her life, and I've come to the conclusion she must have loved this man, whoever he was. It's such a shame I'm not ever likely to find out.

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Online Andy_T

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 02:36 GMT (UK) »
This is an old thread from 14 - 15 years ago so I am not sure anyone is still following this?
I have a few points to share but no specific ones about the specific family as posted by "Nutkin".

ILLEGITIMATE CHILDREN:
I have a file with pdf transcripts from 1500's - about 1830 for BMD of Appleby Magna, Leicestershire, England. I estimate around 5% - 10% of births recorded in 1700's and 1800's were illegitimate.
Most commonly records give mother's name and child's name described as the bastard (S) = son OR (D) = daughter.
Sometimes the father is named with the mother and a boy may be described as "the baseborn" (S) of Fredrick Blogs.

USING ANOTHER FAMILY NAME AS A 2ND PRE-NAME:
The use of a family name used as a 2nd pre-name was not exclusive to illegitimate children. For example my gg grandfather William Thurman (1810 - 1882) married twice.
With his first wife Mary Neale they had 3 children and they all took the name Neale as a second pre-name. Example John was named John Neale Thurman. A girl and another son also took Neale as a second name.
In 1851 William was a widower and on Census day he had a young lady visitor called Ester with a new born baby. In Feb 1852 William married the "visitor" Ester but the child always lived with Ester's mother. A year later in 1853 they got round to baptizing their daughter and she was officially named Sarah Mary Stanley Thurman (Stanley being the family name of Ester's father). Sara continued to live with her grandmother even though William and Ester went on to have another 8 children. The 8 younger siblings of Sara all lived with William & Ester.
Was this due to shame and stigma that she was born out of wedlock or did Sara and grandmother just love each other so much that they could not be parted; who knows?

POLITE OR INAPPROPRIATE TERMINOLOGY:
Until more politically correct times, records called a spade a shovel and there was no sensitivity about using the term "Bastard". Furthermore, even as recently as 1911 the UK census records have columns on the census forms for recording "Lunatics & Imbeciles".
I guess family members falling into these categories would be shamefully hidden away from sight in the attic or the coal cellar.

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Thurman, Coleman, Beck, Shaw

Offline iolaus

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 09:03 GMT (UK) »
My 4 times great grandfather was born in 1816 - his baptism on 11th August was very helpful
'Born May 1st. GEORGE, natural son of Thomas Williams, alias William Thomas and Ann Fido of Marshfield, Carpenter. Sworn to him at the Cross Hands.'

Always wonder if the father used both names or if his mother was 'it's Thomas Williams or William Thomas, I can't really remember which way round his names go'   

George names William Thomas on his first marriage certificate, but Thomas Fido on the second and third  - not sure if that is a sign of the times changing in the 20odd years between marriages 1 and 2 or because the first one was where he was born and presumably everyone knew the truth and he'd moved to a nearby city with his first wife so he could conceal it? or because his social standing had risen more so he wanted to appear legit?  or even just the vicar assuming that his father had the same surname

Offline iolaus

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 09:11 GMT (UK) »
There is also one on my husband's side where I'm fairly convinced it is her subsequent husband's child - approx 7 months before the birth (14 Feb 1896) he gets sent to India with the army, the little girl is just registered with her mother's details in the Novemeber,  as soon as he gets back they marry (Oct 1897) and the daughter is then baptised (with mothers maiden name as her second middle name) dies shortly after that - her death is registered with both surnames
In the 1911 census with children born alive to the marriage she is included in those numbers as born alive to the marriage but died

Offline Gillg

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 12:06 GMT (UK) »
The use of a surname as middle name does not always apply to the naming of illegitimate children.  It can be to do with inheritance.  I have two examples of this, both of whom added the extra surname in order to inherit wealth, however they both added the name as adults and neither was illegitimate. I do also have one example of the extra surname given at baptism.  Irritatingly I've never been able to trace the real father of this one.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

FAIREY/FAIRY/FAREY/FEARY, LAWSON, CHURCH, BENSON, HALSTEAD from Easton, Ellington, Eynesbury, Gt Catworth, Huntingdon, Spaldwick, Hunts;  Burnley, Lancs;  New Zealand, Australia & US.

HURST, BOLTON,  BUTTERWORTH, ADAMSON, WILD, MCIVOR from Milnrow, Newhey, Oldham & Rochdale, Lancs.

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 12:55 GMT (UK) »
Gillg raises another aspect about using another surname as a 2nd / middle name:
Quote: "It can be to do with inheritance".

This leads me to another roots post from 2004 / 2005 about landowners Coleman family and a John Thurman at Long Clawson, Leics.
This discussion is primarily about the Coleman family at Long Clawson but their next door neibour, John Thurman was also a huge landowner with farms in Leicestershire and parts of Warwickshire.
Thurman lived and died a batchelor and lived well into his 90's.
Weird thing is that he left a bit of money to children of his deceased Thurman nephews and nieces and left most of his properties and land to the Coleman family.
One of the farms he bequeathed in his 1845 will to his godson, John Thurwan Coleman "Who was to take the name THURMAN".
Gentleman John Thurman passed away in 1849 and in that year John Thurwan Coleman was 11 years old. He did change his middle name to Thurman (from Thurwan) and died age 29.

Here is the link to that Coleman / Thurman thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=24991.msg6661751#msg6661751

Thurman, Coleman, Beck, Shaw

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 12:57 GMT (UK) »
The use of a surname as middle name does not always apply to the naming of illegitimate children.  It can be to do with inheritance. 

Quite the reverse.  I think it became a fashion in the early 1800s, as that is when it starts to appear regularly in baptism records.  One of my g-g-grandfathers used most of his earlier family surnames on his first five children - if he had not done that, I would have been unable to follow the lines further, especially beyond a previous baptism under a mis-spelt name.

Another example was the family of John Gregory Jones, one of the founders of the Liverpool Collegiate Institution. All his nine offspring had distinctive, even odd, middle names, but that means they can be traced among all the other Joneses in Liverpool.  Maybe they were the ones all the rest were trying to keep up with  ;D
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Online Andy_T

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Re: Bastard Children and Baptisms
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 13:59 GMT (UK) »
Gillg and Andrew Tarr are both right to a point and it’s also true that some illegitimate children received their father’s family name as a middle name. My gg grandfather gave his first wife’s family name to their 3 children in the 1840’s.
After he became a widower, he had 9 more children with a younger woman and the first born in 1851 was born out of wedlock and she received her maternal grandfather’s family name as a middle name. In 1852 they married and in Feb 1853 they got around to a baptism and she was named Sarah Anne Stanley Thurman (Stanley being her mother’s family name).
As in the case of bachelor and “Gentleman” John Thurman he left a house and a farm to his godson on the condition his name was to change to Thurman.

Andy_T
Thurman, Coleman, Beck, Shaw