Looking for Birth 1814/1815

[Isobel]

I am trying to find the birth information of William Kirk born 1814 or 1815.  The Crawford Lanark census in 1871  states he was born Durisdeer Dumfriesshire. 

[ysabeau]

Hi

Could find no trace of a William Kirk born @ Durrisdeer 1800-1830 on either SP or IGI.

However, have found so far seven children, born 1849-1865 @ Crawford with parents William Kirk/Helen Hogg.

In 1881 census he was a widower, aged 64 years and living with his unmarried daughter Janet Kirk @ Crawford.

Details of his parents will be on his death certificate



Ysabeau

[JAP]

There is also in the IGI an eighth (their first) child, Mary, born Eskdalemuir, Dumfries in 1847 - which at least places William back in Dumfries.

So the children were Mary 1847 in Dumfries, then in Crawford Lanark, Thomas 1849, Elizabeth 1851, James 1853, Helen 1855, Janet 1858, William 1862 and Rosina 1865.

There are LDS submissions for a Helen HOGG, 1821 Eskdalemuir, parents Thomas HOGG and Mary BELL.
And for a William KIRK, 1808 Eskdalemuir, parents Thomas KIRK and Elspet AFFLECK.
Who knows ...
Incidentally, I notice that the relevant Durrisdeer christening batch (C118232) is one of those infuriating batches where only the females have been extracted into the online IGI!

But, as Ysabeau says, William's death certificate should help as, if known, the names of his parents will be shown.  And then, of course, you could search for their deaths (hoping that they survived until statutory registration) which would possibly take you back a further generation.

The 1855 birth certificate for Helen might be worth getting as, in that year, the certificates contained additional information (see the SP site) which might be helpful.

JAP

[Isobel]

Helen Hogg was born Eskdalemuir 14/8/1821 and her family I have got back until 1699
William died in Crawford on 27th July 1888 according to his headstone that I recently found aged 74.

According to census of 1871 it said born Durisdeer Dumfriesshire, I don't know how near Eskdalemuir was to see if it is possible.

Is it possible to look up death records?

Thanks for your help
Isobel

[JAP]

Isobel,

I am not quite sure what you mean when you ask is it possible to look up death records.

You can do so on the pay-per-view (charges are reasonable) site ScotlandsPeople at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
and you can download death certificates from that site.

Scottish certificates are particularly informative - death certificates will list, if known by the informant, the name and occupation of the father of the deceased, and the name and maiden surname of the mother of the deceased.

So William's death certificate is likely to tell you the names of his parents.

The birth certificate of Helen jnr should tell you such things as how many children William and Helen already had, and the date and place of their marriage.

You will find a map of the parishes of Dumfriesshire on Genuki at:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/DFS/parish_map.html

Regards,

JAP
P.S. A free search on ScotlandsPeople (you need to be registered) shows only one death record for a William KIRK, died 1888, age 74
PPS: Married women are usually indexed under both their married names and (if known) their maiden names.  A search for the death Helen KIRK, other name HOGG finds only one record.  Narrowing the search parameters finds that she died in 1878 aged 57.

[Isobel]

JAP

Thanks for your help.
When I have a few more people I am stuck with I will buy the credits from Scotlands People.

On the headstone it also stated a grandson was buried a Private Thomas Kirk who died in France 25/9/1915  aged 33.  Could you do me a favour and check who his parents were.

Isobel

[JAP]

Isobel,

It costs nothing to register with ScotlandsPeople - you will then be able to do free searches yourself.

However, to find the parents of a deceased person, you will need to purchase credits and view/download the actual death certificate.  The minimum payment is six pounds - good value for money in my view.   The credits are valid for a week.  If you run out of time but still have credits left, you do not lose the credits.  However, were you to view/download Helen jnr's birth cert, Helen snr's death cert, William's death cert, and Thomas's death cert, you would have used up over 20 of your 30 credits!  And remember - the 1861-1901 censuses are also on SP.  Not to mention Wills!

There are four records of the death of a Thomas KIRK in 1915 on SP.

Two good places to search for war deaths are:

1. The Commonwealth War Graves Commission site at:
http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/search.aspx
A search there finds two records for a death of a T KIRK on 25 Sep 1915 - one (Thomas) is aged 23, the other (initial T only provided) does not have an age.  There are some more details if you click on the name.

2. The Scottish War Memorial site at:
http://www.snwm.org/
The two Thomas KIRKs who died on that date are also listed here.  The age is not given for either but one Thomas (a Pte in the Highland Light Infantry) was born in Edinburgh and the other Thomas (a Pte in the Gordon Highlanders) was born in Crawford, Lanarkshire.

Regards,

JAP

[Isobel]

JAP

Thanks for that.

It states that Thomas Kirk was the adopted son of Mr & Mrs Kirk,  However the headstone says grandson.  I will need to get the death certificate for that as well.  My list is getting bigger.

I will be buying some credits shortly. 

Thanks for all you help

Isobel

[JAP]

Hi Isobel,

I didn't mention that entry from the CWGC because it related to the Thomas KIRK (of the Gordon Highlanders) who was listed as being aged 23 whereas you had said that the Thomas of the gravestone was aged 33 (though perhaps that was a transcription error?).  Neither forename nor age of the T. KIRK who also died on 25 Sep 1915 (of the Highland Light Infantry) was listed but on the SWM site either but his name also was given as Thomas though still no age.

Incidentally, I would perhaps be a little surprised were the word 'adopted' to appear on a gravestone to describe a grandson.

I've not seen a war death certificate from SP but I have an idea that I've heard people comment that they are not necessarily as informative as the standard certificates. 

Regards,

JAP

JAP