Prison in 1815 - but where?

[PrueM]

Can anyone help me please?  My ancestor Mary HOLMES was tried at the Nottingham (Liberty of Southwell and Scrooby) Quarter Sessions on 15 July 1815 for stealing clothes, sentenced to 7 years transportation, and arrived in New South Wales in February 1817.  I have her trial papers, and everything that remains regarding her arrival and life in Australia, as well as her probable baptism etc. at Southwell in 1784.

What I would really like to know is where Mary went between her sentencing and her transportation?  I assume that she would have been held in a prison, and at some stage transported south to wherever the convict ships departed from (she came out on the "Lord Melville"), or she may have been held in a prison hulk.

Does anyone know where I could look to find out what happened to Mary for those 18 months before she left England?

Thank you
Prue

[Jane Eden]

Hi Prue

What is contained in the trial papers?

I think I will have to go to the archives for you. I have had a look on A2A for Nottm archives and there is a return of felons and misdemeanours but this just gives the date name crime and sentence. Among the other records listed there is nothing for this court at the right time. There is a category for quarter sessions rolls for criminals but it doesn't list the content so I hope it may be there.

I will try and call in tomorrow or Tuesday after work to ask what they have but I may not have time to search for a couple of weeks as I will only have an hour each time and it depends when the collections are from the store room.

The staff are brilliant and will probably be able to give me the background on what happened between sentence and transportation.

Jane

[PrueM]

Hi Jane,
Brilliant!  Thank you so much for your kind offer. 
I have three trial papers (copies, anyway, from Nott Archives):  evidence of the complainant; evidence of the local constable; and the charge (feloniously stealing, taking and carrying away etc.) but no sentence or anything else.  If you want to let the archives know the references then I'll dig those out for you.
Thanks again!
Prue

[Jane Eden]

Hi Prue

If you can find the references it may help.

Jane

[PrueM]

Here we go Jane:

C/LSS/4/46 Summer 1815

As for the documents themselves, they are:

1)  The information and complaint of Mary Nuttall of Southwell
2)  The Deposition of John Sandaver of Southwell...Constable
3)  The finding of the court Mary Holmes...did then and there feloniously steal, take and carry away...

Thank you again. 

Prue

[Jane Eden]

Hi Prue

We had trouble posting earlier but here goes......

The initial response from the staff was that they thought you already have all the information they have in C/LSS/4/46.

In a book from Nottm Fam Hist Soc Mary is age 30, trial 15/7/1815 Sothwell court 7years transportation - all which we knew. BUT it does say the place of crime was Norwell and that she was transported in 1816 not 1817 to NSW on the Lord Melville. I suppose if she arrived in Feb 1817 she would have left here in 1816. Do you know how long it took to get to NSW in those days?

It looks as though she would have been held at the House of Correction in Southwell or possibly the County Jail.

I will be going on Tuesday after work and have put in 7 requests for various documents and books from the storeroom.  These include minute books, returns of felons and misdemeanours, calendars of prisoners and quarter session rolls. I have put in a request for the reference you gave me as well just in case there are any extra details they did not give you, though this is unlikely.

I will let you know how I get on.

Jane

[PrueM]

Hello Jane,

Thanks for all your help so far.

I've checked the documents again and the place where the crime took place was the "publichouse [of] John Smith of Southwell".  Not sure where Norwell comes in...the complainant's names was Mary Nuttall, I wonder whether the compilers of the book you mention got her name mixed in somewhere?  Also, although I know from the ship's manifests that Mary Holmes was sentenced to seven years, I have no record of the sentence in the papers I have from her trial.  Not sure whether this exists or not.

Anyway, yes, Mary's voyage would have begun some time in late 1816.  The voyage could take anywhere from 3 to 6 months, depending on weather conditions.  What a nightmare it must have been!!

I really appreciate your help Jane - thanks so much! 

Prue

[Jane Eden]

Hi Prue

This is an area I have not got into before as my family did not get transported, as far as I know. I find it fascinating and obviously you cannot nip down the road to the archives. I will have a good look on Tuesday after work and let you know the result.

It is no problem at all and if there are any other Nottm look ups please let me know.

I'm sure you must have done numerous web searches but I came across this:

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/transpor.html

and I found it quite moving. I do sail as my husband is a yachtmaster but that is as a leisure pastime. To be on a convict ship must have been worse that the 7 years transportation. To leave in May and not arrive until January is appalling. Can you imagine the conditions?

Jane

[Jane Eden]

Hi Prue

Did they take photos of the references they sent you? Can you read them. I have had them in my hands tonight. Unbelievable to think they survived.

I looked through load of bits of paper etc. The relevant bits are:

C/LSS 1/2 Quarter session minute book 13 Jan 1810-17 Oct 1823

'An indictment being preferred and found against Mary Holmes for felonously stealing one cotton gown and other articles the property of Mary Nuthall to which she pleaded Guilty - It is Ordered by the Court that the said Mary Holmes be taken hence to his Majestys House of Correction at Southwell and from thence to the County Gaol at Nottingham to be transported for the term of Seven years to such parts beyond the Seas as His Majesty in Council shall think fit x ------'

Recognizances returned:----

Mary Nuttall  Singlewoman   £40
John Sandaver Constable  £20
William Jallings Yeoman £20

Jane