Author Topic: British Civil Servants in India  (Read 8067 times)

Offline proteantime

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British Civil Servants in India
« on: Tuesday 13 December 05 21:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me with the following notice from:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

London Gazette 29 December 1931.
Central Chancery of the Orders of Knighthood - St James's Palace SW1, 1st January 1932
The KING has been graciously pleased to give orders for the following promotions in, and appointments to, the Most Eminent Order of the Indian Empire:  To be Companions of the said Most Eminent Order:
Ernest Ferdinand Oppenheim, Esq., Indian Civil Service, Commissioner, United Provinces.

This is our great great uncle and we're unsure as to what exactly this information means in terms of his occupation.

It seems to be saying that Ernest was promoted to Commissioner of the Indican Civil Service.  Does anyone know anything about this type of Government position (if it indeed was one) or anything about how one may have ended up in India working for the Indian Civil Service if they were British?  Would they have needed to be a civil servant in the UK first?

Any help would be fabulous!

Cheers
Kirsten

Beach (Faversham, Whitstable, Kent , Windsor Bucks)
Reay, Waller, Hutton (Cumberland, Westmorland)
Oppenheim (Hamburg, Mecklenberg, Manchester)
Cassell, Dickinson, Walter (London, Kent and Surrey)
Bury, Heywood, Cohen, Sichel (Lancashire)
Thompson (Great Yarmouth, London and Kent)
Brewer, Harvey (Suffolk, Norfolk)
Mathison (Newcastle upon Tyne)
http://www.webpalette.co.uk/Oppenheims.htm
UK Census info. is Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jorose

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Re: British Civil Servants in India
« Reply #1 on: Monday 19 December 05 10:56 GMT (UK) »
http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/united-kingdom014.htm - here's a picture of the medal he would have had as a Companion. 

http://www.bl.uk/collections/orientaloffice.html - the OIOC at the British Library is probably where more details would be found; they charge for research, I believe, but they'd probably at least be able to tell you what information they hold.

The Times, Monday, Jul 26, 1897; pg. 7; Issue 35265; col B - the class list issued on Saturday for Modern History at Oxford (includes Oppenheim, E. F., Balliol)  Balliol would have been the college in Oxford - I wonder if this is yours?

The Times, Friday, Nov 12, 1897; pg. 8; Issue 35359; col E - BA awarded to Ernest F. Oppenheim, Balliol.

The Times, Wednesday, Nov 02, 1898; pg. 11; Issue 35663; col D
- council of Legal examination, at Gray's Inn, among those passed in Roman Law, Constitutional Law and Legal History: Ernest F. Oppenheim.

The Times, Friday, Nov 04, 1898; pg. 6; Issue 35665; col A
- correction to say that he passed at Inner Temple, not Gray's Inn.

The Times, Thursday, Jun 15, 1899; pg. 11; Issue 35856; col A
-called to the bar, Ernest Ferdinand Oppenheim, BA, Oxford (at Inner Temple).

The Times, Monday, Feb 06, 1939; pg. 1; Issue 48222; col A
-death record, on Feb 2, 1939, at Alassio, Italy, after a short illness, Ernest F. Oppenheim, C.I.E, husband of Elaine Oppenheim and second son of the late Mr and Mrs Oppenheim, of Parksfield, Didsbury, Manchester, in his 64th year.  (Indian papers, please copy.)


http://www.innertemple.org.uk/archive/archive.html - info on the Inner Temple, which might also have records for him.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline proteantime

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Re: British Civil Servants in India
« Reply #2 on: Monday 19 December 05 12:04 GMT (UK) »
 :D

Wow that's incredible! How do you do that?  Brilliant jorose and the closest I've been to finding out more about him.

thank you I'll follow up those leads and get back to you.

Greetings of the season and thanks for my Christmas miracle!!!
Kirsten
Beach (Faversham, Whitstable, Kent , Windsor Bucks)
Reay, Waller, Hutton (Cumberland, Westmorland)
Oppenheim (Hamburg, Mecklenberg, Manchester)
Cassell, Dickinson, Walter (London, Kent and Surrey)
Bury, Heywood, Cohen, Sichel (Lancashire)
Thompson (Great Yarmouth, London and Kent)
Brewer, Harvey (Suffolk, Norfolk)
Mathison (Newcastle upon Tyne)
http://www.webpalette.co.uk/Oppenheims.htm
UK Census info. is Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline proteantime

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Re: British Civil Servants in India
« Reply #3 on: Monday 19 December 05 12:12 GMT (UK) »
This is what I have learnt from the British Library (many thanks to Hedley Sutton at OIOC Reference Services):

'OPPENHEIM, Ernest Francis. Commander of the Indian Empire, 1932; born 3 July 1875; son of S. Oppenheim, Justice of the Peace, York House, Oxford Street, Manchester; married 1915 Elaine Mabel, daughter of Colonel Jacob, Attleborough, Norfolk; two sons, one daughter. Educated: Rugby School (Scholar), Balliol College, Oxford (Exhibitioner).
Barrister-at-law, Inner Temple, 1898; Indian Civil Service, 1899;
Collector and Magistrate, 1911; Commissioner, 1925; Chevalier de la Couronne (Belgium), 1927; Member, Board of Revenue, United Provinces, India, 1930 - 1934; retired 1934. Recreations: tennis, bridge. Address:
Villa Scarona, Alassio, Italy. Club: East India United Service. Died 2 February 1939.'

The entry for him in the 1934 'India Office List' confirms much of the above information and adds that he arrived in India on 5 December 1899, serving firstly in the North West Provinces and Oudh as magistrate, collector and assistant commissioner;
he was appointed deputy commissioner in November 1914; confirmed as commissioner in January 1928, having been officiating commissioner since 1925; he became a member of the Board of Revenue in December 1931, and the award of his C.I.E. followed one month later.

I feel really blessed to have ancestors with traceable history here and it clears up several questions.
Beach (Faversham, Whitstable, Kent , Windsor Bucks)
Reay, Waller, Hutton (Cumberland, Westmorland)
Oppenheim (Hamburg, Mecklenberg, Manchester)
Cassell, Dickinson, Walter (London, Kent and Surrey)
Bury, Heywood, Cohen, Sichel (Lancashire)
Thompson (Great Yarmouth, London and Kent)
Brewer, Harvey (Suffolk, Norfolk)
Mathison (Newcastle upon Tyne)
http://www.webpalette.co.uk/Oppenheims.htm
UK Census info. is Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline jorose

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Re: British Civil Servants in India
« Reply #4 on: Monday 19 December 05 13:28 GMT (UK) »
Wow, quick services from the OIOC!

I took a little more of a look on the Times archive for you:

The Times, Thursday, Oct 22, 1908; pg. 11; Issue 38784; col B
A marriage has been arranged between the Rev. J. Allen Jones, vicar of Llanyblodwell, and Millie, daughter of Mr. S. Oppenheim, the Austro-Hungarian Consul in Manchester, of Pankfield, Disbury (I imagine this would be a relative, because of the address - not sure if it's meant to be Pankfield or Parkfield, but looks like Pankfield here).

Searching on Parkfield, Didsbury, gets me:
The Times, Tuesday, Jan 14, 1930; pg. 1; Issue 45410; col A
On Jan 10, 1930, at Parkfield, Didsbury, Manchester, Adele, widow of S. Oppenheim, JP, in her 80th year.  Service Manchester crematorium noon today (Tuesday).  No flowers, by request.

Looking for more information on Rev. Allen Jones netted:
The Times, Saturday, Jun 03, 1911; pg. 1; Issue 39602; col A
On the 2nd June, at St. Margaret's, Whalley Range, Manchester, by the Rector, the Rev W. J. Canton, assisted by the Rev J. Allen Jones, of Llanyblodwell, George, youngest son of S. Oppenheim, of Parksfield, Didsbury, to Isabel Haddon, younger daughter of Sir William Sinclair, of Manchester.

The Times, Saturday, Nov 14, 1936; pg. 1; Issue 47532; col A
On Friday, Nov 13, 1936, at the Vicarage, after a long illness, the Rev John Allen-Jones, BA, for 37 years Vicar of Llanyblodwell.

The Times, Wednesday, Dec 29, 1937; pg. 1; Issue 47878; col A
On Dec 18, 1937, at St. Mary's Church, Sawbridgeworth, Herts, John Ernest, son of the late Rev. J. Allen-Jones, of Llanyblodwell Vicarage, Oswestry, and Mrs Allen-Jones, of Didsbury, to Margaret, only daughter of the late A. E. Rix and Mrs Rix, of Frodsham, Sawbridgeworth.

The Times, Thursday, Aug 10, 1939; pg. 1; Issue 48380; col A
- On Aug 7, 1939, at Marple Nursing Home - birth of a son to above Allen-Jones couple.  (Their address given as Bryn Awcl, Jacksons Edge, Disley, Cheshire).

The Times, Friday, Dec 29, 1944; pg. 1; Issue 50027; col A
-now John Ernest is listed as 'Flight-Lieutenant J. E. Allen-Jones, RAFVR'.  Daughter born Dec 27, 1944, at Knaresborough nursing home in Sawbridgeworth.

The Times, Thursday, Aug 28, 1947; pg. 1; Issue 50851; col A
     Births
-another daughter, born Aug 25 1947 also at Knaresborough.  Father is now Wing-Commander J. Allen-Jones.

The Times, Wednesday, Feb 09, 1966; pg. 14; Issue 56551; col C
The engagment is announced between Charles, son of Air Commandore and Mrs J. E. Allen-Jones, of Little Bursteads, Little Hallingbury, Essex, and Caroline, daughter of Mr and Mrs K. Beale, of Malthouse, Woodchurch, Kent.

The Times, Thursday, May 09, 1968; pg. 18; Issue 57247; col A
On May 8th, 1968 - son born to above couple.

The Times, Thursday, Jan 09, 1969; pg. 10; Issue 57454; col C
Engagement is announced between George, eldest son of Mr F. T. Rainey of Fuengirola, Spain, and Mrs V. Rainey, of 73 Lansdowne Road, London, W11, and Rosamund, elder daughter of Air Vice-Marshal J. E. Allen-Jones, CBE, and Mrs Allen-Jones, of Little Bursteads, Little Hallingbury, Bishops Stortford, Herts.

The Times, Tuesday, Dec 28, 1971; pg. 14; Issue 58360; col A
Son born to above couple.

The Times, Friday, Apr 21, 1972; pg. 30; Issue 58458; col A
Daughter born to Charles Allen-Jones and Caroline nee Beale.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline proteantime

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Re: British Civil Servants in India
« Reply #5 on: Monday 19 December 05 13:39 GMT (UK) »
 :D :D ;D

wow that's some reference book you've got there!!!

That's my missing Mathilde Oppenheim (sister of Ernest)!

Her other brother Frederic gave his house in Didsbury manchester the name Porthgwarra (town in Cornwall) which explains the link now!

Her parents were Ashkenazi jews and she married a vicar in Cornwall!  ::)

A death notice for Adele and yet I could find no trace.  That clears up a huge mystery for me.

Isabel Haddon married George Emil Oppenheim - which means I was completely wrong about the marriage!

Death of Mathilde's husband - very useful thank you.

Mathilde's (now Allen Jones) son gets married and she is back in Didsbury Manchester!

This married couple have a baby and are living in Cheshire where George Emil settled. (changed his name to Osborne in 1914)

Their offspring (the same age as my husband) announced and the father is an Airforce man CBE! which will make my husband proud as there is a continuing heritage of "flyers" and military men in the family.

I think you just made ALL my Christmases and those of my son and family come all at once.

Eternally indebted to you for that!

Kirsten and family

Beach (Faversham, Whitstable, Kent , Windsor Bucks)
Reay, Waller, Hutton (Cumberland, Westmorland)
Oppenheim (Hamburg, Mecklenberg, Manchester)
Cassell, Dickinson, Walter (London, Kent and Surrey)
Bury, Heywood, Cohen, Sichel (Lancashire)
Thompson (Great Yarmouth, London and Kent)
Brewer, Harvey (Suffolk, Norfolk)
Mathison (Newcastle upon Tyne)
http://www.webpalette.co.uk/Oppenheims.htm
UK Census info. is Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline proteantime

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Re: British Civil Servants in India
« Reply #6 on: Monday 19 December 05 13:45 GMT (UK) »
 ;D

just a quick aside here:

Llanyblodwell is in Shropshire apologies not Cornwall so I guess that one is still a mystery.


K ;)
Beach (Faversham, Whitstable, Kent , Windsor Bucks)
Reay, Waller, Hutton (Cumberland, Westmorland)
Oppenheim (Hamburg, Mecklenberg, Manchester)
Cassell, Dickinson, Walter (London, Kent and Surrey)
Bury, Heywood, Cohen, Sichel (Lancashire)
Thompson (Great Yarmouth, London and Kent)
Brewer, Harvey (Suffolk, Norfolk)
Mathison (Newcastle upon Tyne)
http://www.webpalette.co.uk/Oppenheims.htm
UK Census info. is Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: British Civil Servants in India
« Reply #7 on: Monday 19 December 05 13:50 GMT (UK) »

Kirsten!

Good job! - You're really on a roll ! - how exciting!
Your family is going to be all sorted out before you know it!!
RootsChat is pretty cool huh??

Annie  :)
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Offline proteantime

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Re: British Civil Servants in India
« Reply #8 on: Monday 19 December 05 13:52 GMT (UK) »
 :)

Oh Annie I'm so pleased you've seen this and so quickly!

It's fantastic and how blessed are we that they made something of their lives on that level.  Otherwise there would be no records per se.

I'm just at this  moment reading some correspondance that Mathilde's husband (Rev. Allen Jones) sent to Winston Churchill on the beaut site:

www-archives.chu.cam.ac.uk

It's gonna be a very Merrry Christmas for us!

Kirsten
Beach (Faversham, Whitstable, Kent , Windsor Bucks)
Reay, Waller, Hutton (Cumberland, Westmorland)
Oppenheim (Hamburg, Mecklenberg, Manchester)
Cassell, Dickinson, Walter (London, Kent and Surrey)
Bury, Heywood, Cohen, Sichel (Lancashire)
Thompson (Great Yarmouth, London and Kent)
Brewer, Harvey (Suffolk, Norfolk)
Mathison (Newcastle upon Tyne)
http://www.webpalette.co.uk/Oppenheims.htm
UK Census info. is Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk