Henry Grahame MONTAGU

[Arranroots]

Helenna

I can't post an image here, so will post it on the Common Room board - subject "HGM Occupation for Helenna" - see what you think!

A 

[helenna]

Hi Arranroot,
Apologies for not replying yesterday but, have had some awsome storms and had to come off.
Have had a look at the image you put on the Common Room Board and yes it certainly looks like the same man.I can only think he was a con man. However I would certainly like to see if he had a brother Charles. Would it be possible to find this out on the computer or would one need to go to FRO for something going back that far??
My grandfather Henry Grahame MOntagu named his father as Charles, (genleman and of independent means) but so far have been unable to locate him. Perhaps this was another con? Long story here. If we could find Charles we could solve the mystery of HGMs parentage.
Many thanks indeed for all of your help.

Helenna

[Arranroots]

Hi Helenna

Could you just restate what you definitely know about your grandfather - I have lost the plot, LOL! 

A 

[helenna]

Hi
Well where do I start. I know everything about him from the age of 17. Anything before that is a mystery. On certificatyes and censuses he states he was born 1839 Bridge Kent. Absolutely no trace, many people have looked. He  joined the 7th Fusiliers when he was 17yr old faught in the Crimean,Indian Uprising eventually ending up in The Somerset Regiment as a Sgt?Major. He left and married Louise Bennett in Bath 1861?He must have been educated as eventually became Chief Inspector of Nuisances of Bath until he retired to Bristol when he was 60. He married 4 times had 19 children. My grandmother was his last wife. she was a servant in his house and only 28 when they married he was 72. He was buried at Bath with a military funeral. Cant understand why ?
None of the other descendants I have made contact with know anything of his parentage.
I managed to get most of my information from his obituary in the Bath Chronicle.
This is of course  only a rough outline of his life.
Looks as though we are in for some more storms so will have to go.
Your help is much appreciated.

Helenna

[Arranroots]

I am gathering what has been discussed so far

Modified: I think this is everything, from all the threads.  I have highlighted a few areas that were mentioned as possible 'leads' that you might or might not have followed up? Perhaps you could let us know?

c 1839 born ?Bridge, Kent - father Charles

Possible parishes under Bridge:
Adisham, Barham, Bekesbourne, Bishopsbourne, Bridge, Chartham, Fordwich, Harbledown, Ickham and Well, Kingston, Littlebourne, Lower Hardres, Mint, Nackington, Patrixbourne, Petham, St. Nicholas Hospital, Stodmarsh, Thanington Within (1837-1910), Thanington Without, Upper Hardres, Waltham, Westgate Without (1837-1910), Wickhambreux, Womenswold.  Did you try Cantab Cathedral Archives?


1841 poss with TODD, MITCHELL, EBSWORTH families in Woowich HO107/493/5/13/21 aged 7 months, b Kent

1841 poss HO107/492/2/40/30 MONTAGNE

1841 candidate H0107/1039/2 born Suffolk, father Edward -was this one followed up?

1841 a Charles aged c25 in Gloucs Ho107/379/9 Conselatore House, St Mary de Crypt, Glou., parents William (ironmonger, born out of county)  and Mary Have you followed them up?


1851 HO107/1486/726/71 a HGM is in Middlesex with wife Lily - Prof of Rock aged 50

1851 - possible brother? William (12) son in law to Wm & Alice JONES (she 38 b Canterbury)

1851 candidate is pupil at school in Jersey

1852 a mineralogist was transported for 7 years

c 1859 joined 7th fusiliers aged 17 (date of Crimean War?)

1861 Lansdown, Bath, Somerset RG9/1694/16/26
Married Dec q Bath

1871 Somerset RG10/2484/63/5

1881 Walcot Somerset RG11/2439/118/28

1891 Somerset - widowed
? Married in Axbridge


George Edward MONTAGUE captain in Jersey had uncle George WROUGHTON (per will) - possible relative?

Charles  Robert Montague June 1838 Bermondsey vol 4 page 12 did you follow up this one?

[helenna]

hi,
Gosh thanks for all that info.
Have had the records at CAnterbury looked into by a friend researcher, no trace.Have looked into Bridge Parishes, they are on line.
1841 woolwich - No
1841 Montagne - No
1841 Suffolk father Edward - No because he was so insistant his father was  Charles?
1841 Charles, Gloucester - No
1851 Prof of Rock - will look into that one, could be relative
1851 William poss bros No
1851 - HGM at school in Jersey. This did look likely as I had been told that he had been educated abroad. Been in touch with Jersey Archives but all school records were destroyed. Have checked the census without success.
1852 Mineralologist -? is he the same as Prof Rock 1851?
1856 Joined 1st Fusiliers (if his father was an aide to the Prince of Wales why was he only an ordinary soldier?) I have checked the Windsor Castle ARchives for a record of Charles as an Aide to Prince of Wales) No record
Have all the certificates of his marriages and deaths etc.

I have also checked the Tower of London re the Fusiliers, checked out Kew - no record .
He did tell my grandmother she would never find out where he came from?

Descendants that I have now been in touch with have all been told that HGMs father Charles was an Aide to the Prince of Wales 1800's. Also that he was a member of the Officers Club in the Mall- no Trace. HGM came from a wealthy family?

I will follow up those that you have given me and many thanks for going to so much trouble.

Helenna

[casalguidi]

Hi Helenna

I wonder if the way forward with this is via his army service.  I'm a little puzzled when you say that you have checked out Kew and there is no record.  What exactly have you checked out at Kew

The muster rolls/pay books for the 7th Regiment of Foot and the 1st Irish Fusilers are there for the 1850s (on your other posts you mention 7th Fusiliers but now you say 1st so I'm not sure which you do actually mean - the 7th Foot or 1st Irish Fusiliers) in class WO 12.  Similarly there are lists of Crimean troops in WO14.   There are also early army medal rolls in WO 100.

You mention in one of your other posts that a relative has his army medals.  Do you know exactly what these medals are and are you sure there are no markings on them?  I have seen Crimean medals with inscription around the outer rim but I'm not sure if this was provided on all medals - perhaps somebody else can help us out here

The Roll of the 7th Regiment of Foot (later to become the Royal Fusiliers) at The Crimea

In March, 1854, France, Turkey and Britain declared war on Russia, and the theatre for the fighting was the Crimean
peninsula on the Black Sea.  The Royal Fusiliers were dispatched as part of the Allied expedition and arrived to fight at the
Battle of the Alma in September of 1854 and at Inkerman in November of the same year.  The Regiment endured the brutal
winter conditions of the Crimea during the siege of Sevastopol through the following winter, and were present at the end of
that siege in September, 1855.

The Regiment returned to England in 1856.  Five members were awarded the newly-instituted Victoria Cross for valiant
service in the Crimea.   They were Assistant Surgeon Thomas Hale Egerton, Lieutenant William Hope, Private Matthew
Hughes, Captain Henry Mitchell Jones and Private William Norman.   The Regiment was granted battle honours for the
Battles of the Alma, Inkerman and Sevastopol.

He did tell my grandmother she would never find out where he came from?

and thereby lays the tale   Perhaps he wasn't really Henry Graham MONTAGUE at all then   Or maybe he was but didn't know about his origins or did know and chose not to divulge for whatever reason?

Casalguidi

[helenna]

Hi Casalguidi,
Apologies for mis quoting regiment.
To Quote from obituary:-
Mr Montagu was originally in the Army,joining as a lad of 17, and fought in the Crimean in the Royal Fusiliers exchanging into the Somerset Regiment. the old 13th, he saw further  Service during the Indian Mutiny. Becoming Sgt Major. Mr Montagu came to Bath as a staff instructor of the 2nd Somerset  militia when there barracks were the present Somerset Industrial School.
The Somerset military museum has him recorded as a corporal and are unable to issue any other information on him.
My cousin has been to Kew several times searching for his record but has been unable to find any trace of him, but did have it pointed out to her that a lot of records were distroyed during the war.
His medals are kept by a member of the Montagu family. I have never met them but other members who seem to know them say that they have been told that there are no markings around the medals and they are only Commerative medals. What does one do in these cases?
The dates do cast some doubt on his age etc.?  But I do appreciate this does happen frequently when  doing research.
I hope this information helps put things straight.

Many thanks for help

Helenna