Author Topic: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige  (Read 26791 times)

Offline E.M. Wilson

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #90 on: Saturday 19 January 19 18:38 GMT (UK) »
keen fisherman and often stayed at country inns where in the evenings he became the life and soul of the party with his story telling. He died 9 May 1862 aged 64.

You wrote:
Pigot's Directory for 1825-1826 lists two Walter Wilsons in business in Hawick. One a baker and the other a cabinetmaker. It  would be reasonable to assume that the one cabinetmaker's business was that of the father (1770-1847) and son (1798-1862), and that he baker is the one married to Isabella Richardson. Pity that seems to be the earliest such directory available.

Brett wrote:
“which explains why at some point, Walter Wilson Junior is then living with the Hume family in Selkirk. “

You wrote:

“Where did that come from? Neither in the 1841 nor in the 1851 census is there any household in Selkirk including both a Walter Wilson and anyone by the name of Hume. (FreeCEN transcription but the SP index lists only the one Walter Wilson in Selkirk). 

In any case, even if he was living with some other family, he would have been 18 on the day of the 1841, and many young men would have left home by that age to follow an apprenticeship.” 

You also write:
“Since I have proved conclusively that that Walter Wilson Sr was dead before Walter Wilson Jr wrote to his father in September 1852, you would be wasting your time. And you don't need to look further than the original of the 1841 census on Scotland's People to show that he was a baker. “

You also write:
In the 1851 census the only Walter Wilson in Selkirk was a 28-year-old master baker, born in England. He fits exactly with Wilhelmina Bell's son who in the following year emigrated to Australia. In the 1841 there are no Walter Wilsons at all listed in Selkirk. This is from FreeCEN and from the indexes at Scotland's People and FamilySearch. Therefore your source above appears to be giving you wrong information.  “

THIS MUST BE BRETT'S GT. GRANDFATHER – Mystery Solved!

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #91 on: Saturday 19 January 19 22:03 GMT (UK) »
“The Walter Wilson in Hawick is not yours, I am sorry to say. He was in Selkirk in 41 and 51.
I repeat: there was no Walter Wilson in Selkirk in 1841. In 1851 Walter Wilson, aged 28, baker, was in Selkirk. If you don't believe me, go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and see for yourself by viewing the original document. Barbara or whoever told you that was giving you wrong information. 

Quote
Walter Wilson Jnr (Brett's Gt. Grandfather who left from Selkirk to Melbourne was the illegitimate child of Wilhelmina Bell and Walter Wilson, Baker in Hawick not Walter Wilson, Cabinetmaker) who was married to Isabella Richardson).
Walter Wilson who went to Australia was the son of Walter Wilson, CABINETMAKER in Hawick. His baptism record is perfectly clear and legible.

Quote
Walter Wilson, Baker in Hawick is not a member of my Wilson family.
He is probably some sort of cousin of Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker, but that is neither here nor there. The point is that he is NOT the father of Wilhelmina Bell's son, born in 1823.
1. He was married in 1821 and had children by his wife in 1822 and 1824.
2. He was a baker and Wilhelmina's son's father was a cabinetmaker.
3. His son Walter was born in 1824 and was living with his parents in 1851.
4. He died in 1849, three years before Wilhelmina's son wrote a letter to his father in Hawick.
5. His son Walter Wiilson, born 1824, was a baker, living in Hawick in 1861 with his mother and three siblings, AFTER Wilhemina's son had emigrated

Quote
No Brett's Walter Wilson had a Sister, Jessie Wilson but it was not the Jessie Wilson married to Hobkirk. Brett writes: "  Walter Snr. and Wilhelmina Bell had 6 or 7 children: Walter Wilson Jnr.(Brett's illegitimate Gt. Grandfather), Fergus Wilson, Ann Wilson, James Wilson, Jessie Wilson, Wilhemina Wilson, and possibly an Isabella Wilson also.
Those siblings are not Wilsons, they are Elliots; Wilhelmina's children by her husband Robert Elliot.  That is why I have asked Brett to post an image of the whole of the page of the family bible.

Quote
So, this is not Jessie Hobkirk (nee Wilson), this is Jessie Wilson, Daughter of the Baker named Walter Wilson in Hawick.
The death certificate of Jessie Hobkirk, née Wilson, says that her parents are Walter Wilson, master cabinetmaker, and Jessie Wilson, maiden surname Grey.

Jessie Wilson, daughter of Walter Wilson, baker in Hawick, was one year old in the 1841 census. Therefore she was born in 1839/1840, and was not old enough to marry in 1849.

Quote
Forfarian, I think you need to see things from my perspective for a moment.
Why? What I see is you clinging doggedly to information that is just plain wrong in a desperate attempt to prove that Brett is not descended from an illegitimate line of your family. Something it is impossible to prove either way unless possibly by DNA.

I really don't care whether or not Brett and you are related to one another or to these assorted 'famous' people, as neither of you is related to me at all. I do care that you are using misinformation and a wilful disregard for FACTS in a vain attempt to further your vendetta, and that you have not bothered to check any of your information by looking up the original records on Scotland's People as any reasonably compenent genealogist would have done.


Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #92 on: Saturday 19 January 19 22:41 GMT (UK) »
In the 1851 census the only Walter Wilson in Selkirk was a 28-year-old master baker, born in England. He fits exactly with Wilhelmina Bell's son who in the following year emigrated to Australia. In the 1841 there are no Walter Wilsons at all listed in Selkirk. This is from FreeCEN and from the indexes at Scotland's People and FamilySearch. Therefore your source above appears to be giving you wrong information.  “
THIS MUST BE BRETT'S GT. GRANDFATHER – Mystery Solved!
The question at issue is which Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker in Hawick, was the father of Walter Wilson, illegitimate son of Wilhelmina Wilson, born in Cumberland in 1823, who emigrated to Australia, married Janet Brydon and eventually became Brett's ancestor. The 1851 census says nothing about that.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Little Nell

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 11,799
    • View Profile
Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #93 on: Saturday 19 January 19 22:54 GMT (UK) »
Moderator comment:

It is unfortunate that this point has been reached.  It is perhaps time to agree to disagree.

Topic locked.
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline TTLovesKwi

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Californian
    • View Profile
The Wilson Family of Hawick
« Reply #94 on: Tuesday 09 February 21 22:48 GMT (UK) »
In doing a Google search on the Wilson Family history of Hawick, I stumbled upon an exchange between E. M. Wilson and Forfarian that I guess got a little chippy and the moderator ended the forum.  In that exchange, E. M. Wilson stated, among other things, " There have been books written documenting the family history, there is the family tree.  The tree is published in one of the books by a real publishing company.  It's not some piece of paper I had lying around. The tree was hand drawn by Lucy Ann Wilson in 1890, a prudish Victorian (1853-1944 and Granddaughter of William Wilson)." That really caught my attention as it so happens that a beautiful copy of that hand drawn tree was framed and graced my grandfather's house for years here in California until he passed away in the 1990's.  I joined the rootschat to see if I could reach out to E.M. and compare notes.  My grandfather was the grandson of Elizabeth Ann Wilson - center top leaf on said tree.  Any info would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks

Offline sarah

  • Administrator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 17,685
  • RootsChat Co-Founder
    • View Profile
Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #95 on: Wednesday 10 February 21 11:46 GMT (UK) »
Hello TTLovesKwi,

I have unlocked the topic and merged your reply so that the poster will be notified of the reply.

Regards

Sarah :)
For Help on how to post an Image on RootsChat
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=459330.0

If you have been helped on RootsChat be sure to spread the word!

UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline TTLovesKwi

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Californian
    • View Profile
Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #96 on: Wednesday 10 February 21 19:40 GMT (UK) »
Here's a photo of the Wilson Family Tree that has been in California for approximately 100 years.

Offline BrettMaximus

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #97 on: Wednesday 10 February 21 23:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi TTLovesKwi,

Might you be able to draw a circle around Elizabeth Ann Wilson in the tree, as I am struggling to see her there.

This image of the family tree is one that I scanned from a book called "The Wilson Story" by Cynthia Wierzbicka who was descended from Sir James Glenny Wilson who emigrated to New Zealand from Hawick, Scotland. The book was published in 1973.

The notes on the image are mine, and the X denotes my Great, Great, Great Grandfather's branch "Walter Wilson" 1798-1862 Cabinet Maker of Hawick.

I would be interested in knowing more about your Wilson family TTLovesKwi.

I had some Wilson family that ended up in California.

I also have some Y-DNA connections to male Wilson's in California at present, but they are likely connected to myself from about 400 years ago, so the DNA experts suggest.


Thanks


Brett

Offline TTLovesKwi

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Californian
    • View Profile
Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« Reply #98 on: Thursday 11 February 21 02:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi Brett,
Attached is an enlargement of the image with Elizabeth's leaf denoted in red.  BTW, I have a grand total of one week's experience doing this type of research.  But I have made significant progress thanks to the Scotland peoples website.  I have found most of the records associated with the Wilson family from the base of the tree through Elizabeth's leaf.

A brief history of our branch:  Elizabeth Ann Wilson married William Howitt Wood (born in Nottinghamshire) in Wilton in 1900.  I believe that Elizabeth Ann Wilson's father was William Richard Wilson, who passed away in Wilton in 1896.  They had one child - William Wilson Wood born 1902.  They immigrated to Massachusetts sometime around 1907.  William Wilson Wood attended the University Of Massachusetts and upon graduation moved to California to pursue a job opportunity.  He married Mary Bernice Wood and they had three children: Mary Ann Wood, Nancy Beth (Wood) Hemstreet, and William Wilson Wood Jr. 

William Wilson Wood Jr. is my father.

As mentioned before, the Family Tree was framed and hung in WWW Sr.'s house until his death in 1996.  It now belongs to my cousin.  He took a photo of it and sent to to me.  Until this week, I had always assumed that this version was a hand drawn original.  As you mentioned, it appears to have been part of a book.  I'm guessing that the author also had a copy of the original.  What is still interesting, is that I think it's safe to assume that our family's copy came over with them in 1907.  And, it should be noted, our copy also has the hand drawn "X" on your relative's branch.

All of it I find fascinating.  Any comments are appreciated

Tim