CHAPMANS of Buckinghamshire

[ptdrifter]

Hi Linda
I have messaged you re the Chapmans .

Rgds
Fred

[ptdrifter]

Hmm No reply from Linda,

She must have left

Too bad, looks like we are related

[behindthefrogs]

...... and that one ancestor was a journey man and the family were 'pushed over the border'.

How are you interpreting Journeyman?  It simply means that he has completed his apprenticeship and is employed, being paid by the hour, rather than being a master craftsman employing others.

David

[Stefan Woolf]

Nikki,

I think I can supply the marriage you are looking for, although the bride's name is SAWE, not LAW

SAW without an 'E' is a name that occurs regularly in Tring - I'm not aware of having seen LAW much. I suspect although spelt 'SAWE' below, it was more usually 'SAW'.

Anyway the marriage is as follows....

St Michael & All Angels, Aston Clinton, Bucks
18th September 1826
James CHAPMAN (X), Widower OTP
Charlotte SAWE (X), Spinster OTP
by banns
Witnesses
John KIPPING
George HARROWELL (X)

James, Charlotte, and children George & Sarah Ann, who appear at Hale Wood, Wendover in the 1851 census, are just 2 addresses before my great great grandparents Thomas and Sarah PENN, (plus Sarah's mother Maria PALMER) at Miles Field, Wendover.

It never amazes me how often these coincidences come up.

These 1851 addresses, whilst technically in Wendover parish, actually lie geographically closer to St Leonards, which was part of Aston Clinton.  This may explain why the marriage took place in Aston Clinton, rather than Wendover.

St Leonards church was not permitted to perform marriages at this date, being one of those "closed down for business by Hardwickes Marriage Act 1754. There were no weddings there again until, (I think, from memory), 1861.

[Stefan Woolf]

Nikki,

It might have been sensible to include what looks like James' first marriage too....

Anyway that marriage is as follows....

St Michael & All Angels, Aston Clinton, Bucks
13th June 1824
James CHAPMAN (X), Bachelor OTP
Maria WALLIS (X), Spinster OTP
by banns
Witnesses
Thomas HORN
Margaret HORN (X)

Curiously Maria CHAPMAN seems neither to be buried at St Michael & All Angels, Aston Clinton, nor at St Leonards.  Perhaps she was buried in Wendover ?

I couldn't see any obvious baptisms relating to either children of James & Maria, nor of James and Charlotte, at either St Michael & All Angels, Aston Clinton, or at St Leonards.

I hope this moves you forward a bit, anyway.

[tikki_nik2]

Brilliant, thank you so much!!! I have spent about 16 years waiting to find this answer! I had a few years ago found the birth record for a James Chapman born to George and Catherine at St Leonards, Aston Clinton, 2 Jan 1803 - there were two older sisters Margaret & Phyllis. Margaret married a Thomas Horn and Phyllis a Samuel Gower. I think the fact that they are shown as witnesses cements what has always been in rough notes as a possible family for James. I have also heard that both Gower and Thorn were big travelling families in the area which would link up with some of the vague stories I have of the family being related to travellers. This is absolutely brilliant - you have just opened a whole new avenue for me. Just out of interest where did you manage to get hold of this record?

Many thanks 

Nikki

[Stefan Woolf]

Nikki,

I'm really pleased if I've been able to move you forwards.

Were you happy with SAW(E) instead of LAW, then ?

The marriage details (both of them) come from a transcription CD from the Bucks Family History Society, covering both the St Michael & All Angels Church in Aston Clinton, and also St Leonard Church, St Leonard's, Aston Clinton.

I've not seen the original register entry for these ones, obviously, but where I have compared their transcriptions to my own, I've always found them spot on.

The CD is about £7 from memory - excellent value for me, as I discovered about 9 of my ancestors are all buried at St Leonards.

They have a web-site.  I can't remember if a Wendover transcription is available - my guess is not, or I would have bought it, I'm sure.

By the way there are lots of GOWERs in Tring, (I think my parent's best man one one). They are a long standing Tring name, and I don't know of a traveller connection, (although a GOWER's Removals business did start  to do long distance carriage an awful lot of years ago, I think).

Stefan.

[smudwhisk]

Hi Nikki

Don't think your Chapman's were in Aston Clinton that much.  A search result from Bucks FHS baptisms index has only four baptisms there between 1700 to 1800 and I couldn't pickup anymore to a George and Catherine in the parishes they had completed when we had the search done but that was in Jan 2006 so may be worth getting them to run a search.

There are two baptisms to a George and Sarah in 1784 (Joseph) and 1786 (Frances) but no sign of a burial for the Sarah to suggest George had remarried before the two daughters were born in the 1790s.  So I don't know if this is the same George with different wives or not.  If they were travellers they could have moved around a lot.  Again burials search was only 1700 to 1800 and from the same time period, so they may be more now.  We were chasing some sidelines on a Chapman tree from Northamptonshire.

Nicola

[nikkip82]

Hi,

Update: After many many years of research I can now confirm my links to James and Charlotte through DNA links with descendants of Phillis Chapman who married Gower and was sister to my great x 3 grandfather James Chapman. Our common ancestors are their parents George Chapman and Catherine Pearce.

I am aware there was a George Chapman born to Jonathan Chapman and Sarah Charge in Wendover in 1758 and my next challenge is to prove whether or not this is the next generation in my family.

Nikki