James Carr

[damienb]

On the Carr side of the family now and I've hit a bit of a dead end so maybe somebody could help or point me in the right direction.

The story:
My father-in-law was born just before the war (1 of 10).
His father, John P Carr (born c1881) married Margaret Casey. I've found him in various censuses with sublings:

James (1879), Mary E (1883), William (1886), Catherine (1888, married Albert Westhead), Michael (1890, married Batt, children Richard and Rose), Martin (1893) and Ann (1898, married Billy Fay)

Their father is Patrick Carr (c1856) and he married Catherine Kelly (both from Sawney Pope St) in 1878. 1881 census shows William Carr (head) and Ann Carr (boarder) living in Sawney Pope St. I'm assuming he was an older brother but not sure. Reference to a William with a wife Ann elsewhere so perhaps his wife and not a boarder?

Marriage certificate lists the father as James Carr, mariner (deceased) and that's about all I have on him - the dead end!

The census lists Patrick as being born in Liverpool but a search of the BDM only turns up one for that year, born in Whitehaven.

No trace of Patrick in the 1861 census (also checked for William) but couldn't find a family with both and none with James as the head. Being a mariner I suppose he could have been at sea when the census was taken? Any way to check?

I've also found no trace of James' death in the BDM - could he have died at sea as he was a mariner? Would it be recorded anywhere?

TIA
Damien

[CaroleW]

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1919

CARR Michael BATT Bridget Liverpool, Register Office Liverpool REG_LP/320/29

[CaroleW]

never believe the age on a census return.  This could be Patrick in 1861 - 117 Hankin Street
 
Ellen Carr 43 Ireland Head  widow - charwoman
Ellen Carr 6 Liverpool Daughter   
James Carr 17 Liverpool Son   
John Carr 12 Liverpool Son   
Patrick Carr 8 Liverpool Son   
 
1851 census - 8 Latimer St

James Carr 33 Ireland - Labourer
Ellen 29 Ireland
Thomas 11 Ireland
James 9 Liverpool
John 4 Liverpool
Christopher 6 weeks or 6 months Liverpool


They are not on the 1841 Liverpool name index

Christopher Carr  Deaths  December  1859  Liverpool   Volume: 8b
Page: 89 

[damienb]

Thanks Carole - sorry for the delay in replying but I got sidetracked by family matters.

I looked a bit more at the info you provided and it looks as if they may be the same with James dying between 1855 and 1861.

Checking the census entries it shows that (1851) that both James and Ellen were born in Ireland as was Thomas. Assuming the dates are right(ish!)  :-) then they moved to England sometime between 1840 (after Thomas was born) and 1842 (when James was born in 1842).

Alas, no indication as to where in Ireland they came from :-(  Kellys were from Mayo so may be worth checking there first in case the families knew each other in Ireland.

Damien

[damienb]

Carole,
While this gives me Patrick I was a bit worried about james being listed as a 'mariner' on the marriage certificate so I tried to go down that route to see if anything turned up and I got some answers and yet more questions 

From the 1841 census I got:

James Carr, mariner, aged 30 living in Grimshaw Court in Liverpool with wife Ann (25) and children Susan (11) and William (6)

For 1851 I got:
James (42 - within reason!), engineer with wife Ann (40) and children William (16), Ann (7), Elizabeth (4) - if it's the same family Susan would be 21  and possibly married or at least not living at home.

For 1861
James Carr (52), engineer on the boat Brother Jonathan and, in Birkenhead, I have Ann (49, head), Ann (17), Elizabeth (14)

For 1871
James (62), mariner, Ann (60), Frederick Janos (hard to read) - son-in-law, Elizabeth Janos, Alice and Elizabeth (d-daughters)

This all ties ins and no sign of either James or Ann in the 1881 census so James quite possibly dead when Patrick married in 1878. The only problem is there's no mention of Patrick anywhere.

Which do you think is the more likely - the run with the 'mariner' but no Patrick or the run with Patrick but no mariner? 

Any/all suggestions welcome.

Damien

[ourgang]

My gt Grandfather Christopher Carr could have been that Christopher Carr listed in the 1851 census at 8 Latimer Street. I find him in the 1901 Irish Census living at Avondale, Kingstown (present day Sallynoggin) his birthplace is listed as Liverpool. His first marriage was in 1872 to Elizabeth McGuinness at Glasthule his father was listed on the marriage cert as James a seaman. His first child James born 1872 dies in 1874 his second son Patrick 1875. His first wife Elizabeth dies in 1876. Christopher may have returned to Liverpool as I understood the family moved back and forth around this time.
He is then supposed to have married a Susan Farrell but I cannot find any marriage. They had seven children who survived. my grandmother Mary Ellen Carr was born in 1879. Christopher Carr died in 1915 and is buried at Deansgrange Cemetry. I am posting this in case anyone is following this thread.

[JamieM]

Hi!

My name is Jamie and Kate Carr was my Great Granmother. Her daughter Susan is my own grandmother. James and Susan Farrell married in 1878. I love to hear back from you.

Jamie

[ourgang]

Hello Jamie,

I haven't kept this posting up to date. Since that time i found the marriage of Christopher and Susan at DúnLaoghaire.

[ourgang]

Having been drawn back to this topic by the post which Jamie M put up I am re reading.
Carole w kindly put up on 24 January 2006
1851 census - 8 Latimer St

James Carr 33 Ireland - Labourer
Ellen 29 Ireland
Thomas 11 Ireland
James 9 Liverpool
John 4 Liverpool
Christopher 6 weeks or 6 months Liverpool

I am assuming that the Christopher mentioned is my Gt grandfather.

I would be interested to find out any details on the other three children Thomas, James or John.
I find Christopher in the irish census for 1901 and 1911 but somehow think the other children remained in Liverpool.
I have not been able to find a death cert for the parents James or Ellen. They could have stayed in Liverpool also.
My grandmother (Christopher's daughter) was born in Ireland in 1879 and there is family oral heresay that she went to visit relations in Liverpool over the years. She went to work in New Brighton sometime around 1900 and got married there to an irish man before returning to Ireland in about 1904.
Now that I have got interested in this branch of the family again I would like to tie up loose ends and maybe out there someone has these Carrs on their family history.