Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:

[Biker]

Hello and welcome!

As far as I remember, when I found the reference to my ggg grandmother's naturalisation online it just indicated the year of naturalisation, it didn't give much else at all.  I was lucky in that her married name was very unusual so I knew it must be her.

One thing I do remember, when you actually order them online there is an option - sorry can't remember the wording - but something like include all papers.  I chose that option, it was £10-12 I think. 

When I got the papers there were 8 pages of A5 including the naturalisation document itself, plus Scotland Yard reports, documents from the local Police - all really interesting stuff about family as well as testemonials from two witnesses (I guess neighbours or friends).

I'm not sure what you get if you say choose this 'this document only' or similar - perhaps just the naturalisation paper itself?

Hopefully somebody else who has ordered it more recently will be able to give more accurate info.

In my opinion it was a great find and well worth the money.

Best of luck
Jonathan

[russethouse]

Thanks Jonathan, Maybe I am not using the National Archive search facility correctly ? I think I looked under HO45.......
It sounds like the papers you and penninahs have are the full scale naturalisation.

A trip to Kew doesn't fill me with glee, but I would dearly love to find out where abouts in Germany they came from.

[Biker]

Hello,

I just searched from the main catalogue here http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/default.asp

I did have a quick look, using the full names and surnames only but didn't find anything     If you search under Zimmer for instance, you will see quite a few entries which are easy to spot, document title is quite obvious.

Perhaps they were not actually naturalised, sorry I'm not an expert on this subject.  Berlin Bob knows quite a bit and when he comes online perhaps he'll be able to help more.

You don't say when they were born.  Have you found them on other census entries?  Might be worth checking to see if any birthplace is mentioned that might be useful.

I should mention that the individual I found the naturalisation papers for was British, but married a German.  She was obliged, after he died, to re-claim her British citizenship which was I think especially enforced in the lead up to World War 1, so you will find that there are a lot of naturalisations around the 1914-15 period.

p.s. I still have an ancestor born in Germany who I'd also love to find out where in Germany he came from, but he only ever mentions Germany on all of the census entries.

Cheers
Jonathan

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi russethouse,

I just posted a new thread here, Immigrants and Aliens about a book I found recently in the library. 
Welll worth a read !

I believe denization means naturalised by the King's Writ and Naturalisation is through Bureacratic means, but it's all in the book, I only skimmed through it !

Bear in mind, that not everybody did get naturalised so you may not find anything.

Good luck,
Bob

[russethouse]

Thanks - that was kind of you.

A kind lady on another board has looked up some entries for me on the 1841 & 51 census. So far the Zimmers are just marked with an F (for foreign) on the 41, but when Philip & Catharine appear together on the 51 they are born in Germany, British subject, So I think perhaps they became british subjects between 1842 (when they married) and 1851.
I don't think they would have been well off, (a shoemaker with eventually four children) and I wonder if they may have gone for the Denizen option rather than full naturalisation.

I have looked at the IGI for Germany but without knowing a little more its difficult to know if you have the right people.

Berlin - Bob, I think they have that book at the local Family Researh centre - I'll take a look.

[liverpool annie]

I want to vent! - I get so frustrated with Kew - you wade through all their searches -  only to find out you can only read them there -  and I can't get there........I suppose the next step is to try and find somebody else to do it ..... but I've just spent a couple of hours -  feeling like  I'm getting somewhere
 and then boom.....!!!! - Thank's for listening -  I know I'm not the only one...... I'll just have to look up somebody else

[Haltonview]

I want to vent! - I get so frustrated with Kew - you wade through all their searches -  only to find out you can only read them there -  and I can't get there........I suppose the next step is to try and find somebody else to do it ..... but I've just spent a couple of hours -  feeling like  I'm getting somewhere
 and then boom.....!!!! - Thank's for listening -  I know I'm not the only one...... I'll just have to look up somebody else

[Haltonview]

I want to vent! - I get so frustrated with Kew - you wade through all their searches -  only to find out you can only read them there -  and I can't get there........I suppose the next step is to try and find somebody else to do it ..... but I've just spent a couple of hours -  feeling like  I'm getting somewhere
 and then boom.....!!!! - Thank's for listening -  I know I'm not the only one...... I'll just have to look up somebody else

Hello Bob,

.There are records of internees in the archives at Kew and I understand from HO records that someone took a census in 1916 of all the internees in the IOM under 45. I sent a request to Kew but they said I would have to go in person to do the search. Then I heard from a researcher there that the records had been lost in the archives. I got the POW # from a lady in the Anglo-German Family History Society so there must be info. somewhere in the UK that would give the background I am looking for. I am waiting for more news from the Society.
 Incidentally, Ernest Oswin Ihle's name in the 1901 census was written as Oswin FHLE. He was 24 at that time. Took me ages to find that.
Once again, I appreciate your information and efforts. I'm still searching and used the addresses you gave me but no luck yet.
Robin

I want to vent! - I get so frustrated with Kew - you wade through all their searches - only to find out you can only read them there - and I can't get there........I suppose the next step is to try and find somebody else to do it ..... but I've just spent a couple of hours - feeling like I'm getting somewhere
 and then boom.....!!!! - Thank's for listening - I know I'm not the only one...... I'll just have to look up somebody else

[Berlin-Bob]

Just found this "Research Guide" at the TNA site Kew

long-link-to-research-guide

Looks useful !

Bob