Author Topic: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:  (Read 18324 times)

Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #27 on: Friday 07 October 05 09:22 BST (UK) »
Loo,
I know this is not going to further your individual research, but I've recently read a book entitled:"All Quiet on the Home Front" by Richard van Emden and Steve Humphries (pub. by Headline in 2003), which is an oral history of life in Britain during WW1.  Chapter 3: "The Enemy Within" deals with how the lives of "aliens" were affected...
..."On the outbreak of war, there were around 53,000 Germans living in Britain, with many more born of German parents but who classed themselves as thoroughly British, living, in almost every way, wholly British lives with the exception of their German names.  Surprisingly, Germans amounted to the third largest immigrant group in Britain, behind the Irish and the Jews.  They were well-known and often well-respected members of the local community: they were pork butchers, hoteliers, governesses and teachers, barbers, waiters, and were resident in almost every part of the country, although most were found in London, the Midlands and the North-East..."
There are 27 fascinating pages about how inexorably the tide of popular public opinion turned against them...
Keith

Offline loo

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 11 October 05 05:55 BST (UK) »
Another interesting resource.  Yes, I was aware of this kind of information, although not this source.  There are many stories of heartbreak to be found.
ARMSTRONG - Castleton Scot; NB; Westminstr Twp
BARFIELD - Nailsea
BRAKE - Nailsea
BURIATTE
CANDY - M'sex, Deptford
CLIFFORD - Maidstone
DURE(E) - France, Devon, Canada
HALLS - Chigwell
KREIN, Peter/Adam - Germany
LEOPOLD - Hanover, London
LATTIMER, MAXWELL - Ldn lightermen
MEYER - Lauenstein
MURRAY - Scot borders
STEWART - Chelsea; Reach
SWANICK - Mayo & Roscommon; Ontario
WEST - Rochester & Maidstone
WILLIS - Wilts, Berks, Hants, London
WOODHOUSE - Bristol tobacconist, London
WW1 internees

Offline proteantime

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 13 December 05 20:31 GMT (UK) »
 :-*

Season's greetings!

I wanted to share the information that I have received from the Librarian at the Manchester Police Museum, who answered a request I made to see if there were documents regarding enemy aliens in their collection.

He advised me that the documents for that area were destroyed by fire so unfortunately that's another dead end for me.  I'm still trying to get my head around the details of this issue, eg. Were naturalised British Citizens still interned or registered as enemy aliens, et.

Also in relation the question of denization and naturalisation, there is a great blurb about it at:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/familyhistory/gallery4/immigrants.htm

I quote:

A naturalised British subject has the same status as a person who was born in Britain, whereas a person granted denization under Letters Patent by the Crown left the person liable to pay double taxes, unable to vote or inherit freehold land, as if he or she were still an alien. The nominal indexes relate to naturalisations by private act of parliament from about 1400 until 1900.

I have found with my research that jewish german immigrants had initially applied for denization and then at a later date become naturalised.

Also that when naturalised, a ceremony was held where the participants swore an oath of allegiance to the Monarch of the time.  A search of the London Gazettes online (using the naturalisation date as a rough guide) has been invaluable for confirming addresses of the people I was searching for also.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

Hope this helps someone in some way.

best wishes
Kirsten
Beach (Faversham, Whitstable, Kent , Windsor Bucks)
Reay, Waller, Hutton (Cumberland, Westmorland)
Oppenheim (Hamburg, Mecklenberg, Manchester)
Cassell, Dickinson, Walter (London, Kent and Surrey)
Bury, Heywood, Cohen, Sichel (Lancashire)
Thompson (Great Yarmouth, London and Kent)
Brewer, Harvey (Suffolk, Norfolk)
Mathison (Newcastle upon Tyne)
http://www.webpalette.co.uk/Oppenheims.htm
UK Census info. is Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Keith Sherwood

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 13 December 05 20:42 GMT (UK) »
Kirsten,
Thanks so much for that - it all made very interesting reading indeed!
Keith

Offline loo

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 14 December 05 04:47 GMT (UK) »
Kirsten, I have some specific information on what happened to the spouses etc. in WW1.  Let me know if you want more.  Spouses were definitely considered enemy aliens as well, even if British born; they were not normally interned, however;  they had to avoid restricted areas in terms of geography;  they were given some sort of pittance of financial allowance, if they applied for it;  spouses were prohibited from travelling more than 5 miles from their homes without registering with the police both coming and going on every trip, which often interfered with employment opportunities, should they ever be offered any;  there is evidence that there were indeed prosecutions for exceeding the 5-mile limit.
ARMSTRONG - Castleton Scot; NB; Westminstr Twp
BARFIELD - Nailsea
BRAKE - Nailsea
BURIATTE
CANDY - M'sex, Deptford
CLIFFORD - Maidstone
DURE(E) - France, Devon, Canada
HALLS - Chigwell
KREIN, Peter/Adam - Germany
LEOPOLD - Hanover, London
LATTIMER, MAXWELL - Ldn lightermen
MEYER - Lauenstein
MURRAY - Scot borders
STEWART - Chelsea; Reach
SWANICK - Mayo & Roscommon; Ontario
WEST - Rochester & Maidstone
WILLIS - Wilts, Berks, Hants, London
WOODHOUSE - Bristol tobacconist, London
WW1 internees

Offline proteantime

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 14 December 05 07:06 GMT (UK) »
Thanks.

It seems three generations suffered in one way or another simply by virtue of the circumstances of their birth.  First the generation of the immigrants who left their home countries (in many cases because of religious or socio-economic persecution), their children who suffered with the stigma in the first world war and subsequently another generation as their children felt the same stigma in the second world war.

It is hardly surprising that although British born and educated and contributing to the societies they lived in, that these families often changed their names.

You mention the British-born wives were "registered" and their movements limited.  Do you know if the British-born children would have been under the same restrictions?

I as specifically as I have hit a brick wall with an entire branch of my tree just "vanishing" after WWI.  I cannot even find death records for any of them.  I wonder what the statistics were for British Immigrants who chose then to emigrate to the United States during this time to move even further away from the crisis of nationality.

Many immigrants from Europe in the nineteenth century had initially travelled to Liverpool and Manchester on their way to the United States and stayed as their economic opportunities turned out for the better in England.  I'm stabbing in the dark here, but it's possible that if families had relatives who had continued on and settled in the U.S. then perhaps they joined them at a later stage.

Thanks again
Kirsten
Beach (Faversham, Whitstable, Kent , Windsor Bucks)
Reay, Waller, Hutton (Cumberland, Westmorland)
Oppenheim (Hamburg, Mecklenberg, Manchester)
Cassell, Dickinson, Walter (London, Kent and Surrey)
Bury, Heywood, Cohen, Sichel (Lancashire)
Thompson (Great Yarmouth, London and Kent)
Brewer, Harvey (Suffolk, Norfolk)
Mathison (Newcastle upon Tyne)
http://www.webpalette.co.uk/Oppenheims.htm
UK Census info. is Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline loo

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 14 December 05 18:15 GMT (UK) »
I have been wondering the very same thing about what happened to these people.  I too can find no death record for my internee, Peter KREIN;  he simply disappears.  I have checked all through 1837online up to where he would not have been living any longer, and cannot find him;  he was older than many - almost 50 when WW1 began - so I wouldn't have thought he would have had much stamina or ambition for starting over in America, especially considering all that he'd been through already, including being widowed twice and losing some children.  It's also worth checking with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission for a death;  they do not list the internees on their website, but they do have records, as they come more or less under the category of POWs - IF they died while interned;  I wrote to them, but they did not have my man.  In my case, he also had a young English-born son, and I can't find him either;  he didn't die young, but I find him nowhere.
To answer your question specifically, I am not aware of the British-born children being labelled enemy aliens, perhaps simply because they were children and were not capable of aiding and abetting the enemy, so not considered a threat.  I guess a spouse was seen to be subject to direction by her husband, since it was usually a husband who was interned - the vast majority of German immigrants had been single males in the 19thC.
Ultimately, the Red Cross archives in Geneva are the place to look apparently, because these camps and internees were monitored and helped by Red Cross.  but I'm not sure if access is allowed;  it might be that you have to pay their researchers.  It would be expensive, as I read that their archives are in a mess.
Also, the Anglo-German Family History Society has some lists, but I have not yet seen them.
You're quite right that at least 3 generations were affected.  I think more, actually, because it messed up the future family dynamics as well, which I can demonstrate in my own situation. 
I live in Canada.  Interestingly, a few weeks ago, the Canadian government came close to apologizing to the Italians whom it interned.  They won't actually apologize, because that would make them legally liable, but they came as close as they could.  Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but it's my sense that the "climate" in Britain wouldn't allow that right now.
If you are living in a large centre with good libraries, please check out my bibliography on the subject (link is earlier on this thread).  The book by Bird documents the fact that they were forbidden to change their names, for example.  Anything by Panayi is particularly well researched.
I should also mention, in case you didn't know, that a large number of internees were deported after WW1.  I have some info on that if you want, but not names.  They were sent back to the continent.
ARMSTRONG - Castleton Scot; NB; Westminstr Twp
BARFIELD - Nailsea
BRAKE - Nailsea
BURIATTE
CANDY - M'sex, Deptford
CLIFFORD - Maidstone
DURE(E) - France, Devon, Canada
HALLS - Chigwell
KREIN, Peter/Adam - Germany
LEOPOLD - Hanover, London
LATTIMER, MAXWELL - Ldn lightermen
MEYER - Lauenstein
MURRAY - Scot borders
STEWART - Chelsea; Reach
SWANICK - Mayo & Roscommon; Ontario
WEST - Rochester & Maidstone
WILLIS - Wilts, Berks, Hants, London
WOODHOUSE - Bristol tobacconist, London
WW1 internees

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 14 December 05 18:42 GMT (UK) »
There is a fascinating book from the National Archives about Aliens and Immigrants.  see this link
Topic: BOOK: Immigration and Aliens
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,45248.0.html
Quote
One VERY interesting fact: before 1905 there were almost NO controls for entering and staying in the UK.
The first Aliens Act was passed in 1905, but it wasn't till 1914 that alien registration became mandatory !

And I know from first-hand knowledge (my family) that "enemy" aliens had to be registered for WW 2

See this thread
Topic: Aliens Order. 1920 Cert. of Registration
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,40150.0.html
with its link to this one:
Topic: My Family ARE Aliens .... TRUE !
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,40149.0.html

This topic also has a link to a page on my website, where I have transcribed my Grandmother's registration book.  This confirms how she had to report to the police station any changes of address, employment, and to report any travels outside her area, with details of where, to whom, and for how long. So much so, that it is actually a potted biography (of these aspects) of her life from 1939-1962.

Bob
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline loo

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Re: Naturalisation, Internment: Immigrant Information at KEW:
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 14 December 05 19:07 GMT (UK) »
There is a fascinating book from the National Archives about Aliens and Immigrants.  see this link
Topic: BOOK: Immigration and Aliens
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,45248.0.html

I have added your recommendation to my bibliography.  I had read it, but didn't think to include it before.  thanks for the reminder.
L
ARMSTRONG - Castleton Scot; NB; Westminstr Twp
BARFIELD - Nailsea
BRAKE - Nailsea
BURIATTE
CANDY - M'sex, Deptford
CLIFFORD - Maidstone
DURE(E) - France, Devon, Canada
HALLS - Chigwell
KREIN, Peter/Adam - Germany
LEOPOLD - Hanover, London
LATTIMER, MAXWELL - Ldn lightermen
MEYER - Lauenstein
MURRAY - Scot borders
STEWART - Chelsea; Reach
SWANICK - Mayo & Roscommon; Ontario
WEST - Rochester & Maidstone
WILLIS - Wilts, Berks, Hants, London
WOODHOUSE - Bristol tobacconist, London
WW1 internees