Author Topic: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates  (Read 9732 times)

Offline MJP

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 04 April 06 20:38 BST (UK) »
Hi again,

Sorry, no number 32 either!  :(

It sounds to me that you might want to check the Catholic registers in Preston for the baptisms and parents marriage, since Henry married in an RC church.  (If the Italy connection proves to be at all true, that would make sense as well.)

Check out the GENUKI preston page for a list of the RC churches in Preston.  http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Preston/
Most of them weren't in operation in the early 1800s so your list of possibilities should be fairly short.  It unfortunately doesn't give any info on where, if any, the registers are kept. 

Also, you might be interested in this book, which is essentially a census of all known Catholics in Preston in 1810 and 1820, written by the priest of St. Wilfrid's, the only Catholic church there at the time. 
http://business.virgin.net/saint.wilfrid/books.htm
It's a little early for your family, but you just might find the parents. 

As for the workhouse records - I now notice that the Prestwich Workhouse and the Manchester Workhouse are two different things.  It was the Prestwich one that has some surviving year books, but you're right about there being no records for the Manchester one, where Marian was.  Oops! Hope I didn't get your hopes up there!

Anyone else care to chime in on this one?  I know someone else has been reading this!!

Best of luck porcelayne ladye...

MJP

Information given in census transcriptions is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Eagle (Yorkshire), Prior (Berkshire), Buckland (Nottinghamshire),
Short (Devon), Sinclair (Caithness, Scotland), Patterson (Co. Tyrone, Ireland)

Offline UKgirl

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #10 on: Friday 07 April 06 11:03 BST (UK) »
There is no 82 Sudell in the 1901. :( It seems to go only as high as 58.

Hello MJP,

I don't know how you checked for the address-perhaps you have a CD, but according to the 1901 Online Census (not Ancestry) using the "Address Search" function, (which is never very useful because of all the "ditto"s listed as street names, which seem to interfere), there are definitely the following numbers:

62, 64 and 66 Suddel St. Manchester

Municipal Ward: St Michaels;
Ecclesiastical Parish: St. George in the Fields;

Since these are all higher than "58", perhaps it's one of those streets that is indexed in portions, a bit here and a bit there?

I myself cannot check for the address using Ancestry (no such function)

But, it "might" still be there, hiding somewhere (the neighbouring parish?)

Using the above-mentioned 1901 Online Address Search, ONLY those 3 numbers appeared (using ONLY "Sudell" in the search box!). Since obviously there are other numbers besides those 3, the fact that no. 82 did not appear does not mean that it isn't there.

Perhaps there is still hope?

UKgirl
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MJP

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #11 on: Friday 07 April 06 14:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Ukgirl!

Thanks for checking as well.  I realized after I posted that that Sudell does go higher than 58, but there is still no 82.  :(  When I used 1901online address search I get a long list of Sudell addresses, going up past 100, but not including 82.  I confirmed that on Ancestry by finding the section that has the numbers in that range.  So....  :-\

At least we know where her husband was in the 1901 census, even if it wasn't on Sudell St. 

Thanks!

MJP
Information given in census transcriptions is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Eagle (Yorkshire), Prior (Berkshire), Buckland (Nottinghamshire),
Short (Devon), Sinclair (Caithness, Scotland), Patterson (Co. Tyrone, Ireland)

Offline UKgirl

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #12 on: Friday 07 April 06 15:14 BST (UK) »
Hello MJP,

Thank you for the clarification.

I had earlier used the search for Lancashire- so my long list of 1901 Sudell addresses were all for Darwen in Lancashire, except for the 3 in Manchester that I listed previously!
But following your comment, I have now had another look, and as you so correctly say, if I use the search for Manchester, then a long list pops up (73 addresses in total, ranging from 2-129).

But isn't it strange that they are almost all odd numbers ???
I counted only 14 even numbers from among the 73 numbers. It's as if one side of the street is missing. perhaps one side is included in one place, and the other side elsewhere? :-\ (I am obviously ever hopeful ;D)


Do you have the references for that street on Ancestry, and then Porcelayne Ladye can perhaps take a peek herself. It is very difficult to find a street on Ancestry, so if you have managed to find it, perhaps you could let her  know where it is.
That would be really useful. She may then sometime be able to find a name that rings a bell, living on the same street. Perhaps a married child or a married sibling lurking under a different name.

Thanks for your help,

UKgirl
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline MJP

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #13 on: Friday 07 April 06 15:42 BST (UK) »
Good point UKgirl  -

The street is scattered across folios.  I think this is all of it:

Nos 2-39 (all odd nos except 2), 55-77 odd: RG13/3750/82/ pages 1-5
Nos 40-58 even: RG13/3750/69/ pages 10-12
Nos 62, 64, 66: RG13/3750/108/ page 14
Nos 87-129 odd: RG13/3750/126/ pages 1-5

I too noticed the lack of even-numbered houses.  I think there must have been something else on the other side of the street, like a railway yard or warehouses.  There is reference to a Railway St. nearby and if you look on a modern map, most of the streets in the area are no longer there - there is just a blank space.   

MJP
Information given in census transcriptions is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Eagle (Yorkshire), Prior (Berkshire), Buckland (Nottinghamshire),
Short (Devon), Sinclair (Caithness, Scotland), Patterson (Co. Tyrone, Ireland)

Offline UKgirl

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 08 April 06 06:42 BST (UK) »
Thank you, MJP.

I think that it is fantastic of you to have found those bits of the street. I have sometimes looked for and found streets myself using only Ancestry, but it is really tedious. So, this time I thought that if you had managed to do that, then it's kind of crazy for such hard work to be duplicated.

I am sure that P.L. will one day be very glad of those references. As no doubt you too have experienced, there is always the chance of finding someone in one of the neighbouring houses. And, I have found that people often moved to another house within the same street. (Better lighting, perhaps? Or better neighbours 8), perhaps?)

But, presumably in 1901, the other side of the street was in fact there, hence the number 82 address.

A case of curiouser and curiouser.............

Anyway, thanks for your hard work,

UKgirl

PS. It's interesting to note that the husband Samuel is living within the same piece number as you have quoted for Sudell Street. Accordingly, they were not so very far away from each other.
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Offline UKgirl

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 08 April 06 10:28 BST (UK) »
Hello again MJP,

The numbers you quoted were for St. George Districts 4, 3, 5 and 6, in that order.

So, I glanced at the descriptions of District 7 and District 8, and there was some further mention of Sudell Street.

I checked all of District 7- nothing.

I checked all of District 8, and found even Nos. 78-96 ;D, plus odd Nos. 135-153

This is the info for:

1901

82, Sudell Street:

Michael Dunne, Head, Widower, 67, Retired Waiter, Public House; Born: Ireland
John Richd. Dunne, Son, Single, 26, Slipper Maker, (worker at home), Born: Manchester
Sarah Delaney, Sister, Widow, 69, Retired Laundress, Born: Ireland

RG13/ Piece number, 3751/ Folio number, 23/ Page number, 37
...........................................
In 1891, this family was living elsewhere, but VERY close by:

Again, St. George District 8:

71, Slater Street

Michael Dunn, Head, Widower, 59, Retired Waiter, Born: Ireland
Sarah Dunn, Daughter, Single, 24, H. Cap Maker (employed); Born: Manchester
John Richd. Dunn, Son, 16, B. Slipper Maker's Apprentice (employed); Born: Manchester
Margaret Dunn, Niece, Single, 21, H. Cap Maker (employed); Born: Liverpool

RG12/ Piece number, 3243/ Folio number, 12/ Page number, 18

"Mary Louise" Mann was 67 on her death certificate in 1901, exactly the same age as Michael Dunne in 1901.

Do I sense romance in the air? ;)

UKgirl

PS. The remaining question now is who was living at No. 82 Sudell Street in 1891?







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Offline UKgirl

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 08 April 06 11:56 BST (UK) »
Hello Porcelayne Ladye,

Just to finish it off, as it were:

1891

82, Sudell Street:

St. George District 9

John Fuller, Head, Mar, 34, Cott. Ruff Cutter (employed) Born: Manchester
Harriet Fuller, Wife, 30, Born: Manchester
Sarah A. Fuller, Daughter, 11, Scholar, Born: Manchester
George Fuller, Son, 9, Scholar, Born: Manchester
Eliza A. Fuller, Daughter, 7, Scholar, Born: Manchester
Ellen Fuller, Daughter, 5, Scholar, Born: Manchester

RG12/ Piece number, 3243/ Folio number, 34/ Page number, 21

I hope that you can find some connection between the residents of 82 Sudell Street and Marion Louise Mann.

Best of Luck,

UKgirl
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline UKgirl

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Re: Prestwich Workhouse Inmates
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 08 April 06 13:55 BST (UK) »
Regarding 1881:

Presumably you have the son in 1881 in Newport, Shropshire? Charles Edward Grainger, 27, is a wine traveller.

By the way, his youngest son's name is Cyril Marmaduke Grainger- some name!! 8)

Haven't been able to find the mother Marian though (yet!)

UKgirl

PS. If Charles Edward Grainger is the Charles Edward Cowburn born 1854 that you found, then the "marriage" to Mr. Grainger may have been much later then you had been thinking, (if it happened at all :-\).

What about the birth of Matilda? Any luck there?

If these children were not the children of Mr. Grainger, then it is strange that they turned against their mother after "the event"...........Don't you think?

AND, if her son Charles was SO VERY ashamed of his mother that he cut off all contact, then why did give his own son the middle name of "Cowburn" in 1878, a full year after his mother was found not guilty?........A little strange, don't you think? Perhaps he didn't really turn against her. Remember, even these days we can hardly believe what is written in the newspaper ::) Some of the reporting of the event should perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt ;)

AND, when she remarried, she used the name of Grainger (a widow)- so, she was hardly hiding under a pseudonym.

Food for thought, perhaps..............
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk