Prestwich Workhouse Inmates

[porcelayne ladye]

Hello Suzyf
My gt gt grandmother. Marian Louise Mann died Crumpsall Workhouse.Prestwich.  26th January 1901.
However Matron gave her name as Mary Louise Mann 0n the death certificate. Do not know when she was admitted only date of death. She died of pneumonia and cardiac failure. Husbands address given as 82 Sudell Street Manchester. He was unaware she had even died. He died 1911 and  made a codicil saying his wife Mary Louise from whom he was legally separated by Agreement should not benefit from his Will. Her first husband was James Grainger who died 1877. She has told so many porkies throughout her life she could even be registered under Grainger. Any help or advice or suggestions would be greatfully appreciated.
Regards Porcelayne Ladye.
p.s.I have spent 15 years hunting her.0nly recently found her remarrying in in 50's in 1890. She was NOT on 1881 Census.

[MJP]

Welcome to Rootschat porcelayne ladye!

Here she is in 1891:

RG12/3242/80/25
22 Providence St. , Manchester
Samuel Mann, Head, 49, Provision Dealer, b. Notts Nottingham
Marian L Mann, Wife, 49, b. Lancs Preston
Elizabeth Mann, Daur, 12, b. Warwickshire Birmingham

When you say she may be registered under Grainger, which registration do you mean? (Since you already have her death cert. and know about her marriage in 1890, what are you looking for?)

MJP

[MJP]

And here is husband Samuel in 1881 (he seems to be a little unsure as to his age! - compare with 1891):

RG11/4005/53/16
11 New Mount St., Manchester
Samuel Mann, Head, 43, Hawker, b. Notts Nottingham
Elizabeth Mann, Wife, 43, Hawker, b. "
Samuel Mann, Son, 5, Scholar, b. Warwickshire Birmingham
Elizabeth Mann, Daur, 2, b. "

And wife Elizabeth's death:

Elizabeth Mann, age 44, Jun Qtr 1885, Manchester District, Vol. 8d Page 183
(again the age is a tiny bit inconsistent, but the only other Elizabeth Mann who died in the 1880s in Manchester was 71 yrs. old)

MJP

[MJP]

Again, I'm not sure what you're looking for or how far back you have already gone, but here is some interesting stuff!

1871
RG10/1436/44/28
59 Observatory St., St. Giles, Oxford
James Grainger, Head, 46, China Salesman, b. Worcester
Marian L. Grainger, Wife, 36, b. Preston
Charles E. Grainger, Son, 17, Clerk in College ? ? (2 more words), b. Manchester
Matilda Grainger, Daur, 18, b. Manchester

1861
RG9/2862/11/15
Monton Rd., Eccles, Lancs
James Grainger, Head, 37, Traveller for China and Glass, b. St. Martins Worcester
Marian Louise Grainger, Wife, 26, b. Italy (Naturalized British Subject)
Mathilda Grainger, Daur, 8, Scholar, b. Kent Ramsgate
Charles Edward Grainger, Son, 7, Scholar, b. Kent Ramsgate

I can't find a marriage registration for James and Marian, or birth regs for Mathilda and Charles...

MJP

[porcelayne ladye]

Hello again,
Sorry if my posting not very clear. What I was hoping for was" to see if you could find anything in Prestwich Workhouse Inmates for my Marian Louisa Mann."
I wanted to know   "when she went in and from where she came from prior to going into workhouse."                 I was quite surpised when I received her death certificate to see where she had died. Wanted a bit more information on my elusive Marian.

Reference to registered under Grainger I meant on her admission to workhouse. If not found under surname of Mann.

I have Marian Louise on 1891,1881 NOT FOUND for her.
1871 0xford.  1861 Eccles.
Possibly 1851 Hulme. and 1841 Salford. (Not 100% on these)     Under the name of Louisa Cowburn.

Her marriage Never found. Childrens Births and Baptisms never found. Conflicting birthplaces. Tried both birthplaces. Also checked the whole of Isle of Thanet for 1851 Census not there. Have also checked Preston for her baptism zilch.(Circa 1835 born) Have not yet tried the non conformist churches though. Not one Cowburn from 1813-1860.

She was tried at the Assizes in 0xford 1877 for Wilful Murder of her husband James Grainger. Found not guilty. Her son and son in law 'paid her off to go away and have no more contact with family 'July 1877.(Found this in 1990's) Brick wall LOST HER found her in February 2006 remarrying in her mid 50's.

When her son Charles Edward's first son born he regd and baptised him Charles Edward COWBURN Grainger.I checked to see if a Chas Edw Cowburn was born in 1854 YES Hulme Manchester. Mother Louisa Cowburn.Fathers name blank.

When I received Marian Louisa Grainger (WIDOW) marriage (Feb 2006) her fathers name was JOHN COWBURN.  So thank you Chas Edwd for this clue. My hunch had always been right. But never found his sister's details.0r either of their baptisms.

I know I will never find it but would LOVE to find her on 1881 Census.    Goodness knows how it was indexed.

Need to know who was living at 82 SUDELL STREET MANCHESTER at time of 1901 Census. Was this where she lived prior to going into workhouse? and who was there on night of 1901 Census.

Sorry if rambling but it is long involved and not straightforward. Especially ITALY??? and Preston?
Look forward to your comments and advice.
Regards Porcelayne Ladye

[MJP]

Thanks for the explanation porcelayne ladye.  I see you have quite the lady on your hands!  I am amazed at what you have been able to discover so far. 

You may have seen this already, but just from Googling I found this page about the Prestwicch Workhouse:

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/

It says that there are few surviving records, but the year books from 1889-1914 exist.  I don't know if those would mention inmates by name or not.  They are held at the Manchester Archives, Central Library, in Manchester. 

I'll try to find that address in the 1901 for you...

MJP

[MJP]

Hi again,

In 1901, Samuel is still in Providence St., as he and Marian were in 1891.  But now number 22 is vacant and Samuel is at number 18.

RG13/3750/69/20
18 Providence St., Manchester
Samual Mann, Head, Widower, 59, Cheese Factor(?), living on own account, b. Notts Nottingham
Emma Passman, Servant, 62, General Domestic Servant, b. Manchester

Looking for Sudell St...

MJP

[MJP]

Hi,

There is no 82 Sudell in the 1901.     It seems to go only as high as 58.  Let me know if you'd like to check another number...

MJP

[porcelayne ladye]

Hello MJP Thank you for your reply. I am not surprised that no 82 Sudell Street did not exist. Marian seems to tell lots of porkies. Death Certificate says she was the wife of Samuel Mann a salesman. of 82 Sudell Street Manchester. However on looking again there is a seraph which makes it look like 82 it could EVEN be 32. Maybe you could try 32 Sudell Street.Please.
When I contacted Manchester Archives a while ago I was told they did not have these registers and where did I get the information from.
I hate to admit failure but really DO NOT know where to go now. All dead ends. Records not survived.
As Chas Edwd was born in Hulme in 1854 I found a Louisa Cowburn(aged 17)  living with her mother brother and sister in law  at 13 Foster Street. on the 1851 Census. (This was back in early 1990's)
Mother gives Louisa's birthplace as PENDLETON. Paid a researcher she could not find a baptism there for her. I managed a couple of trips to Manchester and too found nothing.
As I believed this could be Marian AS SOMETIMES IN POLICE RECORDS in 0xford calls herself  just Louisa.
Found her brother Henry's marriage at St Augustines Chapel (Roman Catholic) 3 June 1850. His fathers name JOHN Cowburn a PAINTER.
Looked for a Marriage between a John Cowburn in Preston to an  Ann.   the only one found was @ Holy Trinity Preston - Anne Whittle spinster. o.t.p. and John Cowburn of Moorgate Fold  Blackburn. 9th June 1825.
I just had to sit on this since 1990's could not find any other clues to follow. Until I was made redundant in February and started to hunt again. Found her Marriage father JOHN but he was a FARMER not a painter.  0r did she think a Farmer looked better than a painter who knows?  She also said she was 48 on Marriage same age as Samuel. However age was correct at time of death.
1871 Family now living in 0xford birthplace PRESTON
1891 Now remarried gone back to Manchester birthplace PRESTON  again.
I only found her on 1861 Census last year at 1837 on line  living in Eccles. could not believe it. Birthplace ITALY (Naturalised British Subject) Even checked 0verseas Marriages.  Children born Ramsgate.
Where oh Where to I go now. Have searched Holy Trinity Preston baptisms for her mother nothingI am beginning to think they must be non conformist? But how many registers for Manchester and Preston.
Any suggetions will be greatfully appreciated. Thank you for reading my saga and dilemma.Living some distance away Maybe I had better sell my house and move to Manchester.
Look forward to your comments and thanks for checking the 1901 census for me.
Regards
Porcelayne Ladye