Author Topic: WW1 killed or missing  (Read 6527 times)

Offline bjo

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WW1 killed or missing
« on: Sunday 09 April 06 22:55 BST (UK) »
Hello Folks,
My Grandfather is remembered at Tyne Cot as having died 2nd Oct 1917.
I have this from the war graves commission:
 
Rifleman in the 1st Bn. Rifle Brigade world war 1.
Missing in action October 2nd 1917 Western Front (Flanders)
Remembered at the Tyne Cot Memorial, Ypres, Belgium.
Name:      ORSLER, Arthur Edmond
Regiment, Corps etc.:    Rifle Brigade (The Prince Consort's Own)
Battalion etc.:    1st Battalion.


Then this taken from 1837 online subscription od Soldiers died WW!


Surname:    Orsler
Forename(s):    Arthur Edmond
Initials:    A E
Birthplace:    Shoreditch
Enlisted:    Shoreditch
Residence:    Shoreditch, Middx.
Rank:    RIFLEMAN
Number:    S/18061
Date died:    02 October 1917
How died:    Killed in action
Theatre of war:    France & Flanders

Orsler, Arthur E
Corps:    Rifle Brigade
Regiment No:    S/18061
Rank:    Private


Why would one say missing and one say killed.
How would I know which one was correct.  Does the fact that he has no grave denote that he was missing
Thanks
Brenda

Offline Kevwood

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Re: WW1 killed or missing
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 09 April 06 23:05 BST (UK) »
Brenda, he has a death certificate!

Arthur E Orsler   Rifleman s/18061 KRRC 1917  Volume I.79

Page  300

You can order it in the normal way with the info.

Kev.
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Offline harribobs

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Re: WW1 killed or missing
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 April 06 23:06 BST (UK) »
hi brenda

there's no real conflict between the two, he was killed in action...and his body wasn't recovered or identified

and yes if he's remebered on the back wall at tyne cot, they never found him, sorry

chris


Offline liverpool annie

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Re: WW1 killed or missing
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 09 April 06 23:15 BST (UK) »


Hi Brenda - thought you might like to see this !

The Tyne Cot Memorial is one of four memorials to the missing in Belgian Flanders which cover the area known as the Ypres Salient. Broadly speaking, the Salient stretched from Langemarck in the north to the northern edge in Ploegsteert Wood in the south, but it varied in area and shape throughout the war. The Salient was formed during the First Battle of Ypres in October and November 1914, when a small British Expeditionary Force succeeded in securing the town before the onset of winter, pushing the German forces back to the Passchendaele Ridge. The Second Battle of Ypres began in April 1915 when the Germans released poison gas into the Allied lines north of Ypres. This was the first time gas had been used by either side and the violence of the attack forced an Allied withdrawal and a shortening of the line of defence. There was little more significant activity on this front until 1917, when in the Third Battle of Ypres an offensive was mounted by Commonwealth forces to divert German attention from a weakened French front further south. The initial attempt in June to dislodge the Germans from the Messines Ridge was a complete success, but the main assault north-eastward, which began at the end of July, quickly became a dogged struggle against determined opposition and the rapidly deteriorating weather. The campaign finally came to a close in November with the capture of Passchendaele. The German offensive of March 1918 met with some initial success, but was eventually checked and repulsed in a combined effort by the Allies in September. The battles of the Ypres Salient claimed many lives on both sides and it quickly became clear that the commemoration of members of the Commonwealth forces with no known grave would have to be divided between several different sites. The site of the Menin Gate was chosen because of the hundreds of thousands of men who passed through it on their way to the battlefields. It commemorates those of all Commonwealth nations except New Zealand who died in the Salient, in the case of United Kingdom casualties before 16 August 1917. Those United Kingdom and New Zealand servicemen who died after that date are named on the memorial at Tyne Cot, a site which marks the furthest point reached by Commonwealth forces in Belgium until nearly the end of the war. Other New Zealand casualties are commemorated on memorials at Buttes New British Cemetery and Messines Ridge British Cemetery. The TYNE COT MEMORIAL now bears the names of almost 35,000 officers and men whose graves are not known. The memorial, designed by Sir Herbert Baker with sculpture by Joseph Armitage and F V Blundstone, was unveiled by Sir Gilbert Dyett in July 1927. The memorial forms the north-eastern boundary of TYNE COT CEMETERY, which was established around a captured German blockhouse or pill-box used as an advanced dressing station. The original battlefield cemetery of 343 graves was greatly enlarged after the Armistice when remains were brought in from the battlefields of Passchendaele and Langemarck, and from a few small burial grounds. It is now the largest Commonwealth war cemetery in the world in terms of burials. At the suggestion of King George V, who visited the cemetery in 1922, the Cross of Sacrifice was placed on the original large pill-box. There are three other pill-boxes in the cemetery. There are now 11,952 Commonwealth servicemen of the First World War buried or commemorated in Tyne Cot Cemetery. 8,365 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials to more than 80 casualties known or believed to be buried among them. Other special memorials commemorate 20 casualties whose graves were destroyed by shell fire. The cemetery was designed by Sir Herbert Baker.

Annie
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Offline harribobs

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Re: WW1 killed or missing
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 09 April 06 23:33 BST (UK) »
the ypres salient was the only piece of belgium that wasn't over-run, it made very little sense to hold on to it, other than to deny it to the germans...which of course was exactly what the british and belgium troops did

T The memorial forms the north-eastern boundary of TYNE COT CEMETERY, which was established around a captured German blockhouse or pill-box used as an advanced dressing station. TAnnie



Offline bjo

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Re: WW1 killed or missing
« Reply #5 on: Monday 10 April 06 16:28 BST (UK) »
ARTHUR E ORSLER

Thank you all,
The photo and text were lovely and I will save that to my family history files.
I was very interested that there is a death cert.  Is that normal for soldiers killed in WW! ?
Hope you don't mind me asking. but exactly where do I apply for the cert.  Would it be the GRO where I apply for 'normal' death certs ?
(Think looking at past posts it is the FRC that I can visit to order death cert.)
Following the finding of this death I went to Ypres for the weekend last year and had a lovely visit to the area.
My Father was born 1915 and my Grandfather never saw his only child as he appeared to be fighting from before my Fathers' birth until he died.
Dad's Mum died in 1920 and so Dad was adopted and knew nothing of his 'real' family. I am sad that I have found all this information too late to tell Dad !!
Regards,
Brenda

Offline bjo

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Re: WW1 killed or missing
« Reply #6 on: Monday 10 April 06 19:26 BST (UK) »
I thought that maybe anyone may be interested in a couple of photos taken last year at Ypres.
Brenda

Offline Kevwood

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Re: WW1 killed or missing
« Reply #7 on: Monday 10 April 06 20:06 BST (UK) »
Great photos Brenda.

Almost all of the WWI deaths have a certificate.

You order it through the GRO the same as normal but it is listed as overseas death. it asks you for the information i posted and they are still £7.

Only thing is they don't really contain much more information than on the CWGC site.

Kev.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

wood,west,williams,morgan,sollars,hawker,snell,roach,clark,symons. In bristol,fremington,instow,rhymney,colyton

Offline manmack

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Re: WW1 killed or missing
« Reply #8 on: Monday 10 April 06 20:57 BST (UK) »
brenda,the CWGC very rarely give the cause of death,they only give the date of death,mack
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