Author Topic: What does ND mean?  (Read 5402 times)

Offline chloespop

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What does ND mean?
« on: Thursday 14 October 04 13:43 BST (UK) »
In the 1881 census, my great-great grandfather Richard Neal was living in North Wingfield. His occupation was Gardener ND.  Can anyone tell me what the ND meant?

Thanks

chloespop

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: What does ND mean?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 14 October 04 13:51 BST (UK) »
Found this answer in a correspondence on the same question in
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/Bristol_and_Somerset/2004-09/1094563700


After much discussion of whether it meant "Non Domestic", (or possibly even " Non Drinker" !), one correspondent added:

"I've been following this correspondence and have just found one of my clan
on the 1901 Knowle/Bedminster census, an old man of 82 described as
Gardener (not domestic), ie spelt out in full."

Another correspondent added:
"look at the image and you wil see these annotations for statistical pruposes
are in another handwriting

the census was made to provide statistics for governanve purposes

domestic = employed by a family

nd or not domestic means a coachman in a livery stables (for hire like a taxi)

BTW stage driver = omnibus driver
also a coachman"

So it seems that Non Domestic is "... for Hire", freelance, or self-employed as distinct from an employee, either of a family (servant) or a firm.

There is probably a similar sort of employed/self-employed  relationship between "tradesman" and Journeyman tradesman"
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline chloespop

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Re: What does ND mean?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 14 October 04 14:13 BST (UK) »
Thanks very much for the information. Interesting that he could make a living as a self-employed gardener.  Or maybe he couldn't because in the 1891 census his occupation was parish sexton. I'm not quite sure what that job entailed, but it sounds like he cleaned a church.

chloespop

Offline Irene B

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Re: What does ND mean?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 03 September 05 16:51 BST (UK) »
Sexton also dug graves and looked after the graveyard - so he was still gardening in a way.
Main, Rossiter, - Northumberland<br />Wibberley, Walwyn, Cadman, - Staffordshire<br />Saiger, Blackburn  - County Durham<br />


Offline chloespop

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Re: What does ND mean?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 04 September 05 16:37 BST (UK) »
Hi Ireneb,

Thank you for the information. According to the 1901 census, Richard was still the sexton, so I guess he must have dug a good many graves. 

Fred Smith (chloespop)

Offline Hackstaple

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Re: What does ND mean?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 04 September 05 16:42 BST (UK) »
"He went and told the Sexton and the Sexton tolled the Bell".
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline chloespop

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Re: What does ND mean?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 04 September 05 17:47 BST (UK) »
Another of his duties.

Offline maybaby

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Re: What does ND mean?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 05 April 21 14:05 BST (UK) »
Thank you for posting this information about the definition of ND.

I am researching a man called William Thompson, who on the 1891 census, aged 52 and living in Northampton, is recorded as a Gentleman's Gardener too and I am trying to find out  where he was working.

I believe I may have found William on the 1861 census, working as a house servant at 5, Cavendish Terrace, Clapham, Wandsworth, London & Surrey in the house of John Humphrey who is described as 'Housekeeper'.

In 1881, I believe I have found him again in Northampton at 42, Gt Russell Street, Northampton Priory of St Andrew Aka Town Part, Northampton, Northamptonshire, England (although he is ten years younger than I think he should be). He is recorded as a Gardener (nd) as described here.

William seem to have remained in Northampton after that and on the 1901 census, I have found a William Thompson at 42 Great Russell Street. His occupation aged 62 is given as Market Gardener and his wife Harriet is described as a Greengrocer/Shopkeeper.  In 1911, aged 71, William was working as a Market Gardener too. 

I too am interested in the idea that a man who appears to have been a servant in his 20's, later appeared to have the money to set up as Market Gardener and his wife as a shop keeper.

Offline spendlove

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Re: What does ND mean?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 15:51 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Market garden was not necessarily large, he may have been renting the land, so only hard work
And seeds required.

If you look at the entry for Harriett Greengrocer/shopkeeper it also states at home, so
selling from the house in which the lived.

So no large capital expenditure.

Spendlove
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Spendlove, Strutt in London & Middlesex.