Looking for info on Army units based in Ballincollig in 1866 & Harding ancestors

[Mike A]

Hi everyone, this is my first post.

My grandfather, Arthur Harding, was born on 9th May 1866, in Ballincollig. I have a copy of his birth certificate which gives his father's name also as 'Arthur Harding' and his mother's maiden name as 'Margaret Long'. Despite a lot of internet searching and a great deal of assistance from a local Ballincollig resident, I've hit a brick wall here and can't find any reference to my great grandparents, Arthur and Margaret.

My grandfather's birth certificate gives my great-grandfather's occupation as 'Collar Maker, R.A.', which seems to indicate he was in the Army and attached to Ballincollig Barracks. This in turn makes me wonder if he was born elsewhere and just happened to be posted there when my grandfather was born.

I am now trying to figure out what Army regiment or unit he might have been in, so that I can check the military records in London, but there seems to be little information on the internet about the actual regiments or units attached to Ballincollig Barracks in the mid-1800's, other than the fact that they were mostly artillery units. Does anyone have information on the regiments that were resident in Ballincollig Barracks in 1866?

BTW, I'm looking forward to making a brief visit to Ballincollig in a few weeks time (on 29 - 31 May)!

Regards from Australia.
Mike

[liverpool annie]

Hi Mike and welcome to RootsChat !

What do you know about your Great Grandfather - do you know anything else that may help somebody help you !!  it's usually easier to look for the person rather than the regiment !! I did find this - maybe it will give you an idea of the area !!

A lot of water has passed along the Millrace at Ballincollig since the year 1805 when the lands were acquired on behalf of the Crown to safeguard the nearby gunpowder mills from the threat posed by Napoleonic France. The Mills were originally a civilian enterprise established by Sir Charles Leslie in 1794 but were later acquired by the Royal Ordnance to ensure a steady supply of gunpowder. Ballincollig Barracks subsequently became the principal artillery depot for the county of Cork having, in 1837, accommodation for 18 officers, 242 men and facilities for eight field batteries. The barracks included a hospital, a church built in 1814 and a school.  Records show that it also included a granary and a grocery shop.  In the course of the 19th century, Ballincollig grew into an important industrial village and by 1850 the Ballincollig Royal Gunpowder Mills, which had passed into civilian ownership in 1833, was one of the largest industrial establishments in Munster employing over 500 people and producing 16,000 barrels of gunpowder annually. However, after the Boer War in 1901, the gunpowder mills were forced to close.

For a time Ballincollig served as the principal police training facility for the province of Munster. In 1922, Ballincollig Barracks was formally handed over by the War Department to the new Irish State.  During the ensuing Civil War, the barracks was burned and was only reopened in 1940 when it was named Murphy Barracks in memory of a former Officer Commanding 3rd Btn. 1st Cork Brigade, who saw active service during the War of Independence and was killed in action at Waterfall on 22nd June 1921.  Various historical figures including Sir Robert Baden Powell, who founded the Boy Scouting Movement in 1908, were stationed at Ballincollig during their Military careers

Annie 

[Leofric]

Mike,

It seems to me that you already have the regiment; RA = Royal Artillery.

Do you know what year your great grandfather died? If it was after March 1901 then you could look him up on the 1901 census for Ballincollig (assuming he didn't move) and it should say on the census form where he was born if not in County Cork. Ditto for Margaret.

I suppose you've seen your grandfather's sister Eliza on the IGI born in 1864? It may be worth getting her birth cert too, just to see if there's any snippet of info more on his army background - service number for example...

good luck
Leofric

[Mike A]

Hi Mike and welcome to RootsChat !

What do you know about your Great Grandfather - do you know anything else that may help somebody help you !!  it's usually easier to look for the person rather than the regiment !! I did find this - maybe it will give you an idea of the area !!

Hi Annie, thanks for the welcome!

I already have a lot of information about Ballincollig and the Barracks, including the information you have given, but thank you anyway.

My biggest problem is that I can find absolutely no reference whatsoever to my great grandparents other than on the birth record of my grandfather and on my grandparent's marriage certificate. Margaret Jordan (a lovely lady who I have yet to meet) lives in Ballincolig and has made a tremendous effort on my behalf, searching local cemeteries and records, but without success. (She obtained the copy of my grandfather's birth certificate for me from the Cork Registry Office).
 
The 1881 England census shows that by that year my grandfather had moved to Wandsworth, in London. He is recorded as aged 15, a labourer, lodging with a family called Higgs. I cannot find any reference to his parents, my great-grandparents Arthur and Margaret, in any census, BMD or parish records, so I have no idea whether they also went to England or stayed in Ireland.

My grandfather married my grandmother, Minnie Margaret Allsop, in Dartford in March 1896 and their marriage certificate records Arthur Harding senior's occupation as 'licensed victualler', so it appears he had left the Army by that time, but where he was living - England, Ireland or elsewhere - I have no idea. The problem is made more difficult because I can't even find a reference to my grandfather in the 1891 nor to either of my grandparents in the 1901 census!

I have been told by my older sister that Arthur and Minnie Harding were first cousins, but have drawn  a blank with that line of enquiry also.

HOWEVER -

Mike,

I suppose you've seen your grandfather's sister Eliza on the IGI born in 1864? It may be worth getting her birth cert too, just to see if there's any snippet of info more on his army background - service number for example...

good luck
Leofric

Thanks for this information, Leofric - no, I have no information at all about my grandfather's siblings!! If he had a sister, Eliza, that opens up a whole new line of enquiry. THANK YOU!

As for the Army details - yes, he was in the Royal Artillery, but it is difficult to find details of individuals from the military records unless you have a bit more information - i.e., what unit of the RA was stationed in Ballincollig (I don't think it could have been the entire regiment since the accommodation in the Barracks would have been insufficient). There was also the Royal Horse Artillery - a different regiment - and given that my great grandfather was a 'collar maker' (a skilled trade in saddlery) it is possible that the actual units stationed in Ballincollig were Royal Horse Artillery (RHA), notwithstanding the use of just "RA" on my grandfather's birth certificate.

Thank you both again for the responses - very much appreciated.
Regards
Mike

[cardiff Irish]

Hi Mike, I live just a few miles from Ballincollig........ have ou read the book on the Barracks?there is a gravestone marked 1865 for a soldier who was buried 1865 ...... Royal Artillery E Battery 8th Brigade. CI

[Mike A]

Hi Mike, I live just a few miles from Ballincollig........ have ou read the book on the Barracks?there is a gravestone marked 1865 for a soldier who was buried 1865 ...... Royal Artillery E Battery 8th Brigade. CI

Wow, this site rocks! Thank you very much for this information - in just a few days since my very first post I've discovered that my grandfather (b. 1866) had a sister, born in 1864! (Thanks again, Leofric - I've now confirmed that very important fact and Mrs Jordan in Ballincollig is getting a copy of Eliza's birth certificate for me) - and now CI has helped me by an almost certain identification of the 8th Brigade R.A. that my great grandfather probably served in!

If I can help anybody out from an Australian perspective, please let me know - I've become totally fascinated by this research and I'd be very glad to do what I can for someone else. (I will start another thread listing the names and locations that I may be able to help someone with).

Thanks again and regards from Oz,
Mike

[liverpool annie]

Hi Mike!

I saw this on another thread on the Irish board !!

my gggrandfather  travelled to Saint Helena by ship in 1867 after joining the Royal Artillery

Just a thought .......  wonder if that would be a possibility ??

You might check the Australian board - look it over - then you can help on there too !!

Annie 

[Mike A]

Thanks, Annie - it's possible that my great grandfather travelled elsewhere with the RA, but I have no previous indication that he left Ireland at all. Still, it is worth following up.

BTW, I'm the Australian immigrant, not my ancestors! I was born in Hendon, London, and emigrated to Australia in 1969.

Rgds
Mike

[liverpool annie]

Theres plenty of us "transplants"  on this site !! as you'll soon find out !!