Author Topic: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd  (Read 4551 times)

Offline Garen

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Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« on: Sunday 23 April 06 23:41 BST (UK) »
I thought I'd have a go at posting a brick wall which is still holding strong after a few years of me looking at it and scratching my head. As I think the answer may involve some obscure military record somewhere (or not), I'm posting it in the Armed Forces section...

My ggg-grandmother was a girl called Catherine Campbell. The interesting thing about Catherine is that all her census entries (except 1841, which is 'not born in county') give her birth place as France (British Subject), and the year tends to hover around 1815. Indeed a family story from a distant cousin says she was born at Waterloo.

I'll just check those ages: 1841 - 29 (1811-12), 1851 - 35 (1815-16), 1861 - 45 (1815-16), 1871 - 56 (1814-15), 1881 - 60 (1820-21!).

She died 26 Jun 1889, age 75 according to the certificate (1814-15). The certificate also gives some names for her parents (my brick wall):

Donald CAMPBELL Sergeant in the 42nd Regiment (deceased)
Barbara CAMPBELL m/s STEVENSON (deceased)

The informant was her son-in-law, Charles McGregor, so I don't know how accurate these names are, but it's all I have to go on. Some more facts about Catherine:

She married Donald CAMERON in Aug 1837 at Caputh, and the family lived most of their time in Clunie, Perthshire where her husband was a farmer, but also the local church officer. They had 9 children from 1839 until 1856, two of whom went into the 72nd Highlanders, perhaps a suggestion of something military in their family background. One of Catherine's daughters was called Barbara, and there was also a Donald, but that could be for Donald Cameron (her husband).

I have not been able to find any sign of Sergeant Donald Campbell, 42nd Foot, or Barbara Stevenson. I did find a couple of Donald Campbells of the 42nd Foot on the The National Archive's searchable catalogue, and when at Kew a couple of years ago looked them up and discounted them (I can't find my notes on them now!). I was once sent a copy of a Waterloo database page that had D. Campbells on, and the 42nd only seemed to own one - a Duncan Campbell.

I searched for Catherine’s birth in GRO REGIMENTAL BIRTH INDICES (1761 to 1924) (and supplement) and Army Chaplain’s returns under Campbell, Stevenson and Stephenson. Also searched GRO ARMY CHAPLAINS DEATH INDICES (1796 to 1880) Stevenson, Stephenson and Campbell. Nada.

I have poked scotlandspeople a few times, spending a few credits on various Barbara Ste*ensons, and balking at the too numerous Donald Campbells - they could be anywhere.

I'm left wondering if his name *was* Donald Campbell? Another idea is - was he in the 42nd Foot? Both his grandsons went into the 72nd Foot - maybe their choice was dictated by Donald actually also being in the 72nd? I see one Donald Campbell on the Waterloo database in the 72nd. Or maybe he was in another regiment altogether... Did Barbara marry Donald? Or was Catherine illegitimate? What was Barbara Stevenson doing in France anyway?

Well, I could go on with the questions and theories! Sorry to give out so much info, but if anyone has any ideas at all - I'd be most grateful. I'd love to know what became of Donald and Barbara, and what gggg-grandfather did in the (Peninsular) war, an area I know very little about.

I have more on the Clunie Camerons at http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/cameron.html

My thanks - Garen.
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

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Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« Reply #1 on: Monday 24 April 06 01:44 BST (UK) »


Hi Garen !

I'll start off ......  ::) you said you've been wondering about the 72nd Foot but this is what I think ...

The 73rd Highlanders came from the 2nd Battalion 42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foot, which was raised in 1779. Eight officers were detached from the 1st Battalion to help raise the new 2nd Battalion which soon took shape.

A 2nd Battalion is Raised

In 1806 the 73rd returned to Scotland and raised a 2nd Battalion of its own.  In 1809, due to recruiting difficulties the Battalion was ordered to discard Highland Dress and was no longer to be recognised as a Highland unit - no vestige of tartan was to be worn.   All this was in an effort to encourage English to join the ranks to assuage recruiting problems.

In 1815 the 2nd Battalion of the 73rd arrived at the Battle of Quatre Bras in which 53 men were killed and wounded.  Two days later at Waterloo whilst serving with Major General Halkett’s Brigade, which was part of Lieutenant General Sir Charles Alten’s 3rd Division, the Battalion was charged no less than 11 times by French Cavalry.  It stood solidly in square and was frequently fired upon by French Artillery.

When the 2nd Battalion disbanded in 1817, some 300 of its men went out to Ceylon to join the 1st Battalion.

Annie  :)
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Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« Reply #2 on: Monday 24 April 06 02:06 BST (UK) »
Well Garen - I had it in my head that maybe - he was on SS Birkehead ..... but I've finally found the list and he's not on it .... then I realised - he would have been much too old ..... but I'm posting it anyways in case you see somebody else you know !!  :)

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/2216/text/BIRK.TXT

The Birkenhead

In 1851, in the company of troops from other regiments, men of the 73rd Regiment sailed in the Birkenhead to reinforce the British Army engaged in the Kaffir War in South Africa.  At two o'clock on the morning of the 28th February 1852 the ship struck a rock just east of Cape Town breaking in half 10 minutes later.  The troops were drawn up on deck and told by the ship's officers that their only hope of safety lay in jumping overboard and swimming for the boats.  Their own officers explained that to do this would imperil the chances of escape for the many women and children who were already in the boats.  The men stood firm in their ranks as the Birkenhead sank.  357 men drowned, 56 from the 73rd - more than from any other regiment.

here's a snippet I found .....

CAMPBELL - Paymaster-Sergeant Ronald - 42nd Regiment.
Died 20th April 1833, aged 27 years. Buried in Msida Bastion Cemetery.

http://website.lineone.net/~stephaniebidmead/c2.htm


Annie  :)
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Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline Garen

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Re: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 April 06 01:05 BST (UK) »
Annie - many thanks for your reply and thoughts on this. The 73rd is certainly an option, but then so is anything at the moment! The trouble is, I could be staring right at Donald Campbell and not know it's him, as I guess I need some connection to either Barbara or Catherine to be sure, which may not be possible.

I think this may remain a family mystery, but I won't totally give up on it. For a start, one of these days I'm going to have to brush up on the Waterloo period, but I'm too obsessed with the second Anglo-Afghan war to spare the time!

Thank you again, very much appreciated.
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

Offline Garen

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Re: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 April 06 14:27 BST (UK) »
Some idle rambling thinking-out-loud...

Why was Barbara in France, unless she was a soldier’s wife, in which case maybe her and Donald (if that’s his name) *were* married and there could be a record somewhere (but not in Scotland according to OPRs on scotlandspeople). Another reason could be if she was the daughter of another soldier on service (hadn't considered that before*). Was she English? I presume she came to Scotland, as Catherine must have ended up there for some reason, so this might indicate a Scots background. Unless it wasn’t Barbara who brought her back. Did either Donald or Barbara make it back to Britain? Catherine did. Where was she before she married Donald Cameron in 1837 at Caputh?

* If Barbara Stevenson was the daughter of a serving soldier, perhaps she met a Sergeant in the same regiment... some contenders from PROCAT:

WO 97/582/18
JOHN STEVENSON Born KILSYTH, Stirlingshire Served in 42nd Foot Regiment Discharged aged 24
1811-1815

WO 97/582/19
JOHN STEVENSON Born BRECHIN, Angus Served in 42nd Foot Regiment Discharged aged 30
1803-1814

WO 97/582/20
JAMES STEVENSON Born KILSYTH, Stirlingshire Served in 42nd Foot Regiment Discharged aged 33
1803-1816

WO 97/582/21
JOHN STEVENSON Born AYR, Ayrshire Served in 42nd Foot Regiment Discharged aged 41
1827-1848

WO 97/582/22
JOHN STEVENSON Born KILWINNING, Ayrshire Served in 42nd Foot Regiment Discharged aged 39
1829-1851

The first three are too young, I'm sure. I'll have to check these out some time.
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Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 25 April 06 15:06 BST (UK) »

Here's some more idle rambling thinking-out-loud...  ::)

1. Many Scots went to France during the Industrial Revolution ! - maybe her family were involved with the looms and wool etc !!
2. Wonder if her first husband died ( Stevenson/Stephenson ) and she married Donald to stay with the strength
3. I'm sorry to say trying to get information about BMD 's in France is like pulling teeth unless you can find out the area .... ! but there are a few people on here who maybe able to point you in the right direction .... !
4. I imagine you've already tried Scottish Archives ??

http://www.nas.gov.uk/

Annie
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Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 26 April 06 15:42 BST (UK) »

Well Garen !!

This is all I've found for 2 days work ...........  ::) but I'm sure you'll be interested in the Malta website .... the 42nd were there !! and I found this "Donald" - but the wrong time frame and wrong regiment - but this is one of those "just in case " to keep on the back burner - you never know - could be related !! in the baptisms and deaths there are Campbells and Stevensons - might want to look through them and see for yourself ...... be prepared to be there for a while .......  :)

CAMPBELL, Donald, buried 22nd February 1873, Private, 74th (Highland) Regiment

http://website.lineone.net/~remosliema/c3.htm

Chapter 25 and 26 is about the 42nd !

http://website.lineone.net/~stephaniebidmead/chapter1920.htm

Annie  :) :)

PS I just had to share this - if only for the photo at the end !!  ;) ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Watch
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Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline Garen

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Re: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 26 April 06 16:32 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your tireless activity, Annie! This is really good of you and is helping me to focus on a problem that I keep putting on the back-burner. I will have a look at those sites, hopefully this weekend when I have some time (I hope!). You've stirred up the old brain on this and I really appreciate it. I did check out what the NAS had a couple of years ago and seem to remember I didn't think there as anything that would help, but I'll have a nother look anyway.

Thanks again -
Garen.

P.S the picture... reminds me of that scene in Carry on up the Khyber where the lifting of the kilts won the day!
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Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Born at Waterloo? and Sgt. Donald Campbell 42nd
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 26 April 06 16:36 BST (UK) »



All I could think of was ..."Donald where's your trewsers "  :P :P :P :P :P

( pardon the pun !!  and apologies to Anne !! ;) ;))

Annie
Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I