Author Topic: Photo Date - Advice Please  (Read 3213 times)

Offline JDGen

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Photo Date - Advice Please
« on: Wednesday 03 May 06 16:48 BST (UK) »
Looking for some advice on dating the attached photo please.  It turned up at a recent family reunion and the writing at the side says Uncle G Barratt's grandmother.  Now Uncle G Barratt was born in 1822 when mother and father were both already 42!! So unlikely to be grandmother but possibly his mother?  So my question is, could this photograph have been taken before 1861? (and therefore be my 3xggrandmother!!)

Any advice gratefully received!

Jean
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett
DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor)
HRT: Gurney
HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St)
LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale)
NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering)
YKS: Scott(Clapham)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Photo Date - Advice Please
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 03 May 06 16:59 BST (UK) »
It could be a daguerrotype or callotype which were around before then. It does have that 'painterly' feel to it. What does the original look like and what size is it?

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline JDGen

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Re: Photo Date - Advice Please
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 03 May 06 17:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Gadget,

It looks to be paper stuck onto a piece of blank card - the picture has a matte finish.  Size is about 6cm by 9cm.  There are other photos in the same album which date before 1868 so I live in hope!!

Jean
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett
DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor)
HRT: Gurney
HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St)
LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale)
NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering)
YKS: Scott(Clapham)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Photo Date - Advice Please
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 03 May 06 17:17 BST (UK) »
Does it look as if it could be drawn/watercoloured rather than an overall 'photo' effect? These early photos were like that and her clothes certainly look of that age.

There is Prue's site:

http://victorian-photos.rootschat.net

which could give you some pointers.

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***


Offline JDGen

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Re: Photo Date - Advice Please
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 03 May 06 17:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Gadget,

Yes drawn rather than watercoloured and not very clear as per the posted image (though not bad for a possible 150 years!).

I was hoping that the clothes might help to date this one but didn't have much luck with google - I certainly don't think it can be GB's gran so here's hoping!

Jean
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett
DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor)
HRT: Gurney
HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St)
LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale)
NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering)
YKS: Scott(Clapham)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Photo Date - Advice Please
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 03 May 06 17:36 BST (UK) »
Well I would say that the clothes are very much of that age. Prue will have more advice when Oz get's up  ;)

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline PrueM

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Re: Photo Date - Advice Please
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 09 May 06 07:35 BST (UK) »
Sorry both, I missed this thread!

OK, not a daguerreotype as it's not on metal.  It's an albumen print, but that doesn't help much, except to say it's no earlier than probably 1860.   Overpainted portraits (which this is) were very common all through the 19th and early 20th centuries, first in just black, white and grey (when photos didn't have a lot of contrast, like this one) and later in colour (like WW1 photos of soldiers).

The size of the photo indicates carte-de-visite size, which was also very common from the 1860s-1880s...I think we will have to rely on the clothing and the style of portrait to help us, and I can't see either now that I'm replying!!  I will have a better look tonight and see what clues I can get.

Prue

Offline Gadget

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Re: Photo Date - Advice Please
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 09 May 06 07:40 BST (UK) »
It could be a callotype though Prue.

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline PrueM

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Re: Photo Date - Advice Please
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 09 May 06 07:56 BST (UK) »
Yes, it could be, but I don't think it is.  It would be extremely unlikely to have survived.  They were mostly done only by experimental pioneers of photography, not by commercial photographers.  I'm pretty sure I can see a gouge out of this photo (up in the lady's bonnet I think) which indicates to me that there is a layer over the paper (ie. baryta and emulsion). 

The style of this portrait suggests a much later date, like 1880s, but I think the clothes look 1860s.  It's hard to tell the age of the lady with so much overpainting (a bit like that godsend, makeup!!  ;D ) but I would think she is probably middle-aged (whatever that is! I'm thinking 50s-60s perhaps).

I would lean towards it being Uncle G's mother rather than grandmother - if his grandmother, and I'm right with the date (say mid-late 1860s) then she would have to be in her 80s in this photo and it doesn't seem that way.

Prue