Clezy, Clezie connections

[patonia]

I heard a little while ago that Peter Clezy has not been at all well, and probably he isn't able to deal with genealogical matters at present. My sister and I enjoyed visiting him and his wife in Sydney in 2002.  Peter remembered meeting our family when I was a small boy, when we were up in Tasmania on furlough from the New Hebrides (the modern-day Vanuatu). I have a copy of his 539-page work "The Old Partnership" which was published later in 2002. Have you seen it? The book is mainly about the Clezy family in Australia, as well as the Steeles, with whom the Clezys intermarried on several occasions.  However it does also discuss Clezy ancestry in Scotland.

Best wishes, Bob

[clazey]

I have not seen the book...I did go to the National Archives and went through the digitalized Berwick-Upon-Tweed baptisms...October 10, 1666 Elenor, d. of William Glasie; January 9, 1672, Will son of Will Clasey; November 27, 1673, Thomas son of William Clasie.   Found nothing prior to 1666 so...back to fishing around to see if I can find them prior to that!!

My mother had the family bible...and after my grandfather died for some bizarre reason, she threw it out!!! How she regrets that...I did read through the entries a couple of times before it disappeared and there were a set of twins there...earliest date which was very faded was late 1700s... of course how it ended up here in the states is another question which I am sure will never be answered!!  James and Helen Kerr did have a set a twins...

Sharon

[April]

Hi Sharon
Seeing the Clazie name in the list reminded me that there was one on the same page of a death entry I got a couple of days ago. If you don't already have it, I can send you the one for Isabella Bell, daughter of John Clazie and Margaret Gray.
April

[clazey]

Thank you!! I have been trying to connect my line to the one of Margaret and John.  And in yet another line - Bells also show up...From what I have managed to find...James Claizy who married Helen Ker(r) (1786) probably had at least two brothers. His father may have been George Clazey and mother Agnes Middlemist or Middlemiss. (1754).   Have not been able to locate the definitive proof but keep looking!

Sharon

[anndra]

Saw your various posts on the above when trawling so joined RootsChat to stick in my pennyworth.
My wife, Margaret, is a direct line 2ggrandaughter of James Leitch and Helen Clazy and I was interested to read all of the various posts you have of the Clazys and their varied spellings.
I don't know how far you have got since this post I am replying to but I have a problem with the family of James/Helen Ker and James/Helen Carr (MI Chirnside). Are they one in the same, or two separate lines? I have about seventy-five Clazy's in my FT at present, all post George/Agnes Middlemist, and think I've tied them all together but there are still some 'orphans'.
Would be pleased if you can help.
Thanks
Andrew

William is definitely in the line. I have George b. 19 May 1765, Edrington. Died: 5 October 1833, age 69. Agnes Alexander b. 1769, Died 31 October1833. George's father was George Claise married to Agnes MIddlemiss or Middlemist. This is where things get confusing and I have yet to straighten it out...George had brothers: William, John and James.

GEorge and Agnes Alexander had the following children: George christened 26 January 1794; Margaret b. 1796 d. 1856; Adam b. 1800 d. 1837, Greenlees; Agnes b. 28 June 1804, Witnesses, Jn. Leslie & JA Knox; She died 14 August 1879; William b. 16 May 1807; and finally Helen b. 1810 d. 17 June 1839. She married John Leitch. He was of Lockton. Banns were posted 14 and 21 April 1833. She was of Eccles.
Sharon

[clazey]

Wow...just when I give up trying to tie everyone together from George and Agness Middlemist...

The two you mention are one and the same. I have a copy I can scan to you...Chirnside Banns and Marriages 1786 - 20th October - James Claizy and Helen Ker.  On the same page is Ninian Ker to Janet Purves and wondered if these two were related...

If I have this line right...Helen was a sister of the John I am descended from.  I have the baptism of John in Longformacus with parents James Clazey and Helen Ker. Still haven't found either the marriage or death of John Clazey...he married Isabelle Oswald and oldest son George was baptized Holy Trinity, 1815, Berwick Upon Tweed.

Was Helen part of a set of twins?

Sharon

[anndra]

Thanks Sharon

I have
1. George & Agnes Middlemist - m.Coldstream 02/06/1751: issue
1.1 William b.Coldstream 16/08/1753
1.2 John b.Coldstream 27/04/1755
1.3 James b.Coldstream 14/12/1760
1.4 George b.Mordington 19/05/1765

1.3 James & Helen Ker - mChirnside 20/10/1786: possible issue
1.3.1 George b.Hutton 1787
1.3.2 Margaret b.Polworth 1789
1.3.3 Alicia and Helen b.Edrom 1793 - twins
1.3.4 John b.Longformacus 1798
1.3.5 James b.Fogo 1802
1.3.6 Joseph b.Fogo 1803
1.3.7 Thomas b.?? 1809 (age from death cert, Chirnside - parents James & Helen Carr)
1.3.8 Mary b.1809 Fogo

MI Chirnside gives       Helen Carr's death as 1826 age 62 which fits with Helen Ker.
                                1.3 James Clezie's death as1833  age 66, but if James was son of George and                                & Agnes the date is 7 years out.
              1.3.6 Joseph's death as 1823 age 23 which is 3 years out.
              1.3.2 Margaret's death as 1856 age 65 which fits exactly.
              1.3.5 James' death as 1860 age 58 which fits exactly.

My concerns are that Helen would have been 45 when Thomas and Mary were born, and James was seven years younger than the son of George and Agnes Middlemist would have been. Thomas' death record does give his parents as James and Helen Carr, however.

Your thoughts?

Here's another one, William to Katharin Liongat m.1703 Hutton. Liongat reads like Scougal to me! Look at 's' in Holy Island four lines above, and the 'n' is definitely a 'u'. The transcriber must have been having a bad day! Unfortunately I can't find any Scougals born in Berwickshire around then although there are Scugals born in Chirnside about that time and there are lots later, and still Scougals in the area today. She could of course have come from Northumberland.
Andrew

[clazey]

I had thought the four boys were siblings...from George and Agnes.  The Thomas mentioned in 1809 - that is a new one!! Although have wondered about this Thomas Clazey I have found in Sunniside...

I have more information on Mary b. Fogo...she was rebuked in 1832 for an irregular marriage...I have found her and her husband, John Wilson in Surrey.  Both are buried there. James Clazey (middle son of John and Isabelle Oswald) erected a marker to her there in Surrey...from a beloved nephew...Now...Isabelle Oswald Clazey left a "history" which is in possession of Sue Prust in Devon (from John, youngest son) and she wrote that John Clazey, her husband, left the family when the boys were young and they could not run the mill.  We are pretty sure that he died but where or when?  She also wrote that things were pretty tough financially for a while but then she received help...Sue and I suspect that Mary and her husband John were the help. Both seemed to have always had their own farm...and no children.

My mother, bless her, for some bizarre reason tossed the family bible years ago...I managed to get a look at it...the handwriting was quite faded and difficult to read BUT what struck me was the entry of twins...and I was shocked to see that the dates went to the 1700s!! I asked my mother about it...she had never seen it until her father died!  She has spent years wondering what ever possessed her to do that!!  And, how it ended up in Rochester, NY...had to have come over with Oswald who arrived in 1910 from England.  However, his grandfather, George Oswald Clazey arrived in NY in 1841...the only son of George and Margaret Hall went back to England and in the 1871 Census, he is living with his grandmother and is a student at Durham College. He married Charlotte Gray in 1872.

On Liongate...someone suggested the last name might be Liddlegate or something close...and that name was also found in Berwickshire...

The other puzzler...George and Agnes...the William, Frances and Thomas Clazey I found in the 1600s in Berwick Upon Tweed...do you have any idea who George's father was?

I have a ton of stuff...

Sharon

[flashMinor]

Hi to Patonia - we seem to be related - and hi to all of you. I found your forum by searching for the damned elusive Pae family - an ancestor, Margaret Steele, is a maternal descendant of the Margaret Pae who married a schoolmaster called James Steele. I realised that one of your Clezys - John Clezy - is recorded as having been one of the cautioners at the marriage of Margaret Steele to John Gordon in Selkirk on 12 June 1838.

Patonia - was your Mary Steele born in Coldingham on 5 January 1802 & baptized there on 31 January of that year? If so, she is the elder sister of my ancestor Margaret Steele, who died in Adelaide in 1857. There seems to have been a wholesale Steele migration to South Australia in the middle of the nineteenth century.

Regards
Anne