Passenger list lookup for Evelyn West

[downside]

Hi Everyone

I've been having a manger rant about ancestry.com on one of the other boards http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,160025.0.html which you may want to browse. Everytime I click on a link these days ancestry.com appears.  They seem to be everywhere.

I was aware of the 1911 census stuff, I actually submitted a correction to it recently because  Eliza (Lileh) West was listed as: West Fitch?

I don't think that Ellis Island record is my Evelyn.  She didn't have a middle initial and I don't think they would have got her age wrong.

That is good news about that forthcoming project by the Library and Archives Canada, providing ancestry.com don't get their grubby mits on it 

Thank you for your replies.  I'm sorry if I have upset you with my comments.

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[J.J.]

Not upset... Was wondering if you scrolled down when you got to the Olive tree
site...?  Most pages have a similar heading, but you need to scroll for the meat
of the information.  J.J.

[downside]

Hi JJ

Yes I did scroll down and I tried a few links.  Some were broken and others lead me ancestry.com (or their affiliates).  I've only recently started looking at Canadian records which are not as advanced at stuff in the UK, with the exception of the 1911 Candian census.  As time goes by we will probably see the release of more data with any luck.

Am I right in thinking that British born people are not classified as immigrants?

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[KarenM]

We are not as advanced as the UK      

Karen

[eillo]

Hi Downside,

I'm afraid you've missed the goodies on Olive Tree. Most of the links going to Ancestry are marked as such - and there are many transcribed databases (thousands) on Olive Tree that are free to all.

For eg the link I gave you for microfilm lists doesn't require leaving the Olive Tree site! You just scroll down the page, READ what is there, and then click to the next page (on Olive Tree) if needed.

The link I gave you to use the custom search engine to search multiple websites for ships lists doesn't go to Ancestry, it does what I described - it searches many different websites, such as Olive Tree itself, ISTG, TheShipsList etc -- big sites with thousands of passenger lists online for FREE. The Search engine is on the page of the link I gave http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/search_shipscanada.shtml  so there's no need to click off anywhere!

I think there's also a misconception about Ancestry. You say "That is good news about that forthcoming project by the Library and Archives Canada, providing ancestry.com don't get their grubby mits on it" LAC often doesn't index the records it puts online - which makes it hard to search them. Don't get me wrong, it's WONDERFUL that they put them online! But that is where Ancestry steps in - they pay to have the records indexed and then they put that index on their site with their other databases. They spell it out clearly that the actual records you get to look at are drawn in from the LAC site (with LAC's permission). So it's a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned. If I choose to pay for the convenience of searching an every name index, I can. If I choose not to, I can search screen by screen thro the images. Freedom of choice 

As for Ancestry being on so many websites, that's understandable. It costs a lot of money to provide free data and information to visitors! So putting ads up on a website devoted to providing free databases, is a way for that website to recover some of its costs. In fact, Rootschat.com which I think we can all agree is fantastic, has Ancestry ads. Good for them!! Running a website is costly. Adding free data to it is even more costly because the data isn't free to start with. The webmaster has to pay to get that data, then transcribe it or pay others to transcribe it .... then pay for the space and bandwidth to have it online...etc. I'm just glad the info is free, I could care less what ads, or how many, are on a good site. End of my 2cents Candian worth 

Next question you had was "Am I right in thinking that British born people are not classified as immigrants?" No, you're wrong. Anyone from country "A" coming INto country "B" is an immigrant in Country "B". You might be confusing this with naturalization and citizenship. British subjects (before 1947) did not have to naturalize in Canada because they had already taken the oath to the King/Queen (which is what naturalization is -- renoucing allegiance to one country and swearing it to another). http://naturalizationrecords.com/ will answer any other questions you might have.

[downside]

Hi eillo

As you are probable aware there is a company called myfamily.com who seem to own many genealogy companies: ancestry.com, ancestry.ca, ancestry.co.uk, familytreemaker.com, genealogy.com, rootsweb.com + World Family Tree.  Once upon a time I bought Family Tree Maker version 6 and entered data some data and was prompted to submit a file to World Family Tree (now run by genealogy.com).  I thought at the time that this data would be free to view for interested parties.  Instead it is pay to view via a subscription.  Apparently I no longer own my submitted data and have to pay to view it.  My data has become a commodity that can be bought and sold.  Additionally Family Tree Maker comes with built-in spyware called DSSAGENT.exe.  OK if you think these are trustworthy people with integrity then that is fine.  GenesReunited bought the UK 1901 census for £3.5m last December.  Again data is a commodity. 

However, when a company acquires free data and then wants to sell it I get a little depressed.  Probably I'm a little naive.

Do you have access to genalogy.com by the way?

Anyway thanks for your help.

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[eillo]

As you are probable aware there is a company called myfamily.com who seem to own many genealogy companies: ancestry.com, ancestry.ca, ancestry.co.uk, familytreemaker.com, genealogy.com, rootsweb.com + World Family Tree.  Once upon a time I bought Family Tree Maker version 6 and entered data some data and was prompted to submit a file to World Family Tree (now run by genealogy.com).  I thought at the time that this data would be free to view for interested parties.  Instead it is pay to view via a subscription. 

Genealogy.com created these CDsl this LONG before they were bought out by MyFamily.com. Ancestry does not have paid subscriptions to this data.

Additionally Family Tree Maker comes with built-in spyware called DSSAGENT.exe. 

 Not really....  First - the user has the option to not install it when installing FTM. Second, it is a means for FTM to provide users with information on updates and new products in the form of a popup window. It's an advertising tool. But the discussion is moot -- because the user does not have to install it if they are uncomfortable with it.

However, when a company acquires free data and then wants to sell it I get a little depressed. 

 I would too..... but Ancestry does not do that. All data they have obtained for free, they still offer  for free. Example Ancestry World Tree is user submitted family trees. It's freely searchable on Ancestry. FreeBDM is that wonderful set of English vital reg which have been indexed by volunteers on the FREEBDM site -- and given to Ancestry. Ancestry provides access for free because THEY got it for free.   Perhaps you are confusing One World Tree with Ancestry World Tree. OWT is a pay service but it's for search capablities NOT for the data. The data is freely browsed or searched with AWT search engines. Confusing, I agree, but nonetheless the data is freely available

Probably I'm a little naive.

Well,  it's important to have actual facts instead of rumour and suspicions before making up one's mind.

Do you have access to genalogy.com by the way?

 

I'm a happy subscriber to Ancestry (couldn't live without it!) but I don't have a Genealogy.com subscription.

[downside]

Hi eillo

Just to clarify a few of points.

1) I've not heard of Ancestry World Tree.
2) The World Family Tree thing seems to belong to genealogy.com.
3)It looks like Windows Defender recently removed dssagent as it has now disappeared from my harddrive.  Spybot, Adaware and MS anti-spyware anti-spyware programs always classified it as spyware, so I'm going on what they said.  I never received any updates so it seems a complete waste of time and it uses up memory.
Please read this article for further information:-
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/pest/pest.aspx?id=55399
4) I've just contacted someone who must have subscribed to Ancestry.com because he downloaded some of my ancestors from the website and it contained a bad spelling of my grandfather's name.  He says he can't access the data on ancestry.com anymore because he no longer has a subscription.

Essentially, I'm trying to identify the submitter of vol 106 tree 3675 on genealogy.com, which might also be the source of the information on ancestry.com.  I sent an email to genealogy.com but they have not responded so far.

Some records are free I agree, but quite a few are not.

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[eillo]

4) I've just contacted someone who must have subscribed to Ancestry.com because he downloaded some of my ancestors from the website and it contained a bad spelling of my grandfather's name.  He says he can't access the data on ancestry.com anymore because he no longer has a subscription.

That's simply not correct. What your contact has done is confuse ONE WORLD TREE with ANCESTRY WORLD TREE. They use the same basic database - user submitted family trees. This base database of family trees is AWT (Ancestry World Tree) plus the old Rootsweb World Connect.

But OWT (ONE WORLD TREE) is a search engine designed to search the AWT (Ancestry World Tree) & Rootsweb World Connect data, and 'stitch' it to various census and other pay to view databases. The paying part is NOT for the data (you can still see that on the AWT pages) but for the normal pay to view databases AND the stitching them together. Eg if you search for your ancestor Hubert Humpeldink using OWT you will get all user submitted data that matches PLUS any matches in the census or immigration or other records on Ancestry.

So if you want to use OWT, yes you have to pay. You are NOT paying to view the data, you are paying to have the data and census and immigration and other databases searched and melded together for you.

But - and here is the very important part that many folks overlook entirely in their haste to tar and feather Ancestry --- the AWT & & Rootsweb World Connect database is still entirely FREE to view as long as you don't want to view it using OWT. So you can go in via the AWT search engine (free) and still see all the previously user submitted family tress. So going to the AWT page or search engine and looking for Hubert Humpeldink does not cost a penny and you will see the user submitted trees for Hubert.

here's a site that might explain this better than me..    http://olivetreegenealogy.blogspot.com/2004_10_01_olivetreegenealogy_archive.html  "One World Tree - The Real Story -What is OneWorldTree? "

Also here is a page about the misconception that Ancestry is charging for user submitted data.
http://genealogy.about.com/b/a/083367.htm

"Ancestry's OneWorldTree - Facts & Misconceptions"

Hope this helps!
Eillo