Author Topic: Edward Henry Collingworth, Death C. 1872  (Read 18124 times)

Offline Daniel Collingwood

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #9 on: Monday 01 April 13 21:56 BST (UK) »
Gingerme, hello!
I have been trying to establish how G-G-Grandpa died and have not had a lot of success except his demise and burial in Hong Kong. What follows is supposition...I have heard of stories that he died at sea and probably did, however, his job as a shipwright would have took him to all sectors of ship maintenance including upkeep of timbers, decking, outboard rigging, fixtures and repairs to the hull. He could have been working on the outside of the hull suspended by rope-tackle or a safety harness. IF this was emergency repairs and out at sea he could have slipped his harness into the sea and drowned but the question remains...how did he get recovered by his shipmates. Unless he was still attached to ropes and they pulled him in,either dead or died later.
If they were well out at sea, say, more than 4 days from port, then most likely he would have been buried at sea. We know he was buried in Hong Kong, so the ship was either close in to port or actually in port. IF hull-ship repairs are not too urgent they are usually done when port is reached.
I believe he died in port by falling into the sea whilst repairing the hull. It may have been some time before his body was found floating in the Hong Kong harbour.
His shipmates along with the 1st officer would have taken his body to Old-Hong Kong infirmary in a cart hired from the locals. Certification of cause of death by the coroner and then registration of death. His men, possibly the whole crew and captain would have held a short service at the local church where he was then interred in O-HK churchyard, believe October 1878. A head-stone was bought by his men. Details of old Edward's ID to the registrar in H-K MAY HAVE BEEN GIVEN BY WHAT THEY KNEW OF HIM rather that by official documents which may not have been on hand, hence the sketchy report of him being from Blackway(Blackwall), aged 51yrs(did he tell his pals he was 51 in fact he was 61). His middle name,Henry has been omitted on the cemetry documentation...maybe his mates didn't know his middle name.
Lastly...his closest shipmates, possibly two and the First Officer would have passed the news on to his family in person many, many months after his death when the ship arrived back if it did, maybe a couple of his mates embarked back to England on another ship to give the news to his children living at Blackwall, Ellerthorpe St?
This could explain the theory that he died in 1880...the delay in getting news back home?

One interesting  thing to ponder on...shipwrights in those days sometimes made a couple of spare coffins along with the ships main carpenters. As Edward was a skilled carpenter.....did he make his own coffin?
...Daniel Collingwood...i'll post again when i find more on all of our ancestors!

Offline Daniel Collingwood

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #10 on: Monday 01 April 13 23:24 BST (UK) »
---------------------- {Where they weep and suffer and sin no more }
Old Hong Kong

DEATH AND BURIAL OF EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD  24th October-1878

Inscriptions for cemetery sections 17-47
... of given rows and columns within each section. "Inscription" shows the text copied from the inscription on the gravestone. ...
Edward Collingwood/ carpenter British ship Dhaewar/ born at Blackway/ died at Hong Kong 24th October 1878/ aged 51 years/ this stone is erected by his/ shipmates as a mark of esteem where they weep and suffer and sin no more. 29---/01/20- Edward Collingwood/ carpenter British ship Dhaewar/ born ...?

https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fgwulo.com%2Fnode%2F8741&lang=en

List of Burials ordered by Name
... a note of the Plot for a given grave, you can look up its inscription. See the pages listed in the menu at the top-left corner of this ... Collingwood Edward 1878-10-24 51 5930 29---/01/20-
~~~~~~~~------------------
?(Born Blackwall aged 61-)

Offline Daniel Collingwood

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 02 April 13 00:24 BST (UK) »
Tuckers Court Alley was at the most southern end of Dingle Lane and Dolphin Lane. Adjacent to Tuckers court in proximity to the Poplar Workhouse was an open sewer running straight into the W.India dock. This 'open' sewer was a link to the 18th century and endured the name "Rolling Turd Alley"
From here it was just a short 5mins WALK to West India Docks and the famous ship building DUNBAR WHARF in Fore Street (now Narrow St, Limehouse and the infamous Ropemakers Fields) where Edward Henry and his dad (John the ropemaker) WORKED as a shipwright, probably until Duncan Dunbar died in 1862. It seems from here Edward moved to Cawdor Street closer to the East India Docks where he could embark on his many ship voyages.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=46471

Dingle Lane and Dingle Lane School (demolished).

Dingle Lane, to the east of No. 30, was one of the ways from the High Street to the Isle of Dogs until the southern part was removed by the construction of the West India Docks. There was some building along it by the early eighteenth century, (ref. 357) and in the early nineteenth century Tucker's Court (begun by Thomas Hale) and Dingle Court were built on its south side. (ref. 358) They consisted of a double row of 14 back-to-back two-storey cottages, each with two rooms and a kitchen or scullery.


http://www.merchantnetworks.com.au/periods/1800after/1800dunbar.htm

Edward and John were very well paid in the employ of Duncan Dunbar.....nb  ships carpenterthe ships tariff of 64 shares divided among crew...remnants of days of pyracy (piracy?). A ships carpenter below 1st mate was the second best paid job on ships compliment.
The great ship builders of the 17th and 18th centuries came from Durham and Scotland. The Collingwoods of Durham were mostly sea farers, 'MASTER MARINERS' AND ship builders and came to London after the English Civil WAR...A line of Collingwoods held office as The High Sheriffs of Northumberland, more research is needed to find our connections here.
BUT one thing stands out...the early Collingwoods of the 15th to the 18th centuries, the Williams, the Johns and Edwards all seem to be wealthier than their later shipworking descendants.
They came to London and spread throughout the World and some made money from legal or illegal piracy/privateering. Their is scant evidence that this 'bounty' the pirates share has been used to finance the apprenticeships of their descendents. How else did they make the money in those days for highly skilled training of shipwrights and in some cases the financing off 'Victuallers Stores' and Inns around the Wapping and Ratcliffe areas of Stepney. How did they form the 'closed' shop of the father to son in the Dock Trade and the Guilds of Shipwrights, Sawyers, Cordwainers and Ropemakers. Admiral Nelson ordered Swiss ropemaking techniques to be used in the roperies of Limehouse....there is something quite intriguing about our historical past in the ship and dock trades..my research may take me further..god luck, Daniel Collingwood


Offline Daniel Collingwood

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 02 April 13 00:38 BST (UK) »
correction to previous post..... Admiral Nelson ordered *Swiss* ropemaking techniques to be used in the roperies of Limehouse...

Should read ...SWEDISH ropemaking techniques,

In fact Nelson had a few dozen Swedish volunteers on his ships at Trafalgar mostly as rope and tackle craftsmen as well as handling sails and gunneries and cannon.

Offline sarah

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 02 April 13 11:36 BST (UK) »
Hi Daniel and Welcome to RootsChat.

I am very sorry to say that we are unable to notify Gingerme of your postings  :'( :'( It looks like she has changed her email address and not updated us with her new one.

Lets hope she comes back soon to read these exciting replies.

Sarah :-\
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Offline Daniel Collingwood

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 03 April 13 00:43 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Sarah.

It is difficult to find anything much before John the Sawyer, Edward Henry's grandpap...but I BELIEVE there are clues that i am following up re- The wills of Johnd to Collingwood of 1703 whom i believe made money through privateering and initially came from..yes you've guessed...Durham who's father may have been William the Master Mariner...master mariners in 16th and 17th century England often owned their own ships which in times of war could have been commandeered by the Admiralty, which in turn could lead to piracy.
John the Sawyer had an indentured apprenticeship paid for  by the age of 14, at the Sawpits of the Woolwich Yard, shipbuilding. Sawyers were capable of building any part of the super-structure of wooden ships and were held to a 7 year training course along with the shipwrights!
Where did these 18th century 'working apprentices' in the shipping industry get the money? I'm trying to find out..and you already know where this is leading me, but for now it is all speculation !

Daniel Collingwood...(with a little bit of..truth?)

Offline Daniel Collingwood

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #15 on: Monday 08 April 13 00:33 BST (UK) »
Edward Colliness
John Collings.
Seafarers
These are two members of William Kidd's crew. I make no excuse or fanciful claims that any of our ancestors sailed with Kidd but many so called pirates were in fact hired as privateers, a legal term used to plunder for the Realm.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/handcousins/message/6821

Most people were illiterate and couldn't even spell their own names. Seafarers, EMBARKING
on a get rich quick journey with promises of a share of the 'bounty' of a PRIVATEER, often did so with a certain amount of caution should their captain (and therefore , crew) be outlawed?
IT wasn't unusual for crew to enlist using a synonym or a slight change of name, just in case they jumped ship in some obscure port.

Most people that could not write or spell often used 'x' or partial spelling of the name!
Collingwoods, Collingsworths often shortened to plain Collins or Collings but i have never heard of Colliness, this name is rare, yet an Edward Colliness and John Collings sailed with KIDD? Did they return as two relations? Was Collings really John Collingwood that married Mary Barker at St.Dunstans, in 1697 ? Did he change ship and return to England by request of KIDD for those that feared prosecution? Did he witness the execution of KIDD at Wapping?
Many fanciful questions but with more research we may learn more.

I believe that John Collingwood that married Mary Barker at St.Dunstans, in 1697 may be John the Sawyer's grandfather (the father is listed as an upholsterer), the missing link?

Edward Henry's GREAT GREAT Grandfather sailed with William Kidd, got his pirates 'share' and profitted to good purpose.

Edward Henry is my direct GREAT GREAT Grandfather ....and we can dream, as they must have done ?

http://brethrencoast.com/bio/William_Kidd.html

http://www.nintendoplayer.com/Pirates!/realpirates.htm

http://www.thewayofthepirates.com/famous-pirates/william-kidd.php

enjoy...Daniel

Offline sarah

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 10 April 13 19:35 BST (UK) »
Hi Daniel,

There is a problem with Gingerme's email address, all PM's and Notifications are coming though to me as he has not updated us with his/her address. :'(

We are just going to have to hope they see these new messages.

Regards

Sarah :)
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Offline Daniel Collingwood

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Re: EDWARD HENRY COLLINGWOOD, DEATH C. 1872
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 13 April 13 00:34 BST (UK) »
Sarah, I thought it appropriate to start a new thread which might attract those that are interested in the Collingwoods.
I am trying to connect the missing collingwoods from 1650 to John the Sawyer that was probably born 1737-1796 and worked his apprenticeship in the Woolwich Yard boat builders.

new thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,643111.new.html#new