Sarah Ann Hall Brown- Ripley

[John Whysall]

Long, boring comment now follows.

As I suggested before, there are just three possible births in the index which match Ms Brown/Hall:
Dec 1852   Sarah Ann Brown   Basford   7b   109
Mar 1853   Sarah Ann Brown   Belper   7b   407
March 1853   Sarah Hall   Belper   7b   416

We also know, from the Family Records Centre index for marriages, the Sarah Ann in question was married in her “adopted” name:
March 1873   Joseph Cresswell   Belper   7b   707
March 1873   Sarah Ann Hall   Belper   7b   707

Indeed, it may be worth knowing if she had a natural mother still living.

When we start looking at the 1861 census, I assume we can ignore the Dec 1852 birth in the Basford district, as out of area. That leaves just two possibilities. What comes next is taken from my reading of the 1861 census: for reasons that are explicit from my earlier, censored and mangled contribution to this thread, I am having to be circumspect (and unnecessarily wordy).

Sarah Hall, presumably she whose birth is in the index for the March (first) quarter of 1853 (reference 7b 416, cited previously), would appear to be the daughter of William and Sarah Hall. On census-night, 7 April 1861, she is safely tucked-up at home with her three sisters and four brothers. Her birth-place is declared to be Swanwick.

The same night, there is a slightly-older Sarah Ann Brown, Belper-born, aged 9, in the household (12 Long Row, Belper) of her parents. Her parents are Jesse Brown (age 32, “Hosiery Warehouse Clerk”) and Orah Brown (age 37: b. Belper). Also in the house is Martha Brown (aged 18: “sister-in-law”, b Belper) and another daughter, Florence Brown (aged 2: b Belper). There are lodgers: Thomas Flint (aged 22: b Notts) and his wife Amelia Flint (aged 17: b Blakesley, Lancs).

There are two possibles for  "Sarah A Hall" in the 1861 Census:

At 66 Laund Hill, Belper, we find the family of John Hall (aged 38, Labourer; b. Belper) and Mary Hall (aged 33, “wife”; b. Belper). They have three daughters: Sarah A Hall (aged 8; b. Belper); Eliza Hall (aged 2; b. Belper) and Pheoby Hall (aged 4 months; b. Belper). Hmm: not likely.

But all is not lost!

At Capel Cottage [which seems to be on or off the Burton Road], in St Werburgh’s, Derby, there lives James Bennett (aged 53, Labourer: b. Marylebone, London) and his wife, Jane Bennett (aged 42, b. Chadderton, Derby). They have three children: Georgeania (aged 15, “House servant”, b. Ripley — “Surrey” has been superscribed in a different hand, almost a scribble); Joseph (aged 8, Scholar, b. Summerhill, “ditto” – presumably ditto to “Derby” in entry for Jane Bennett) and Paul (Son, aged 6, Scholar, ditto [to Summerhill]).

There is something very fishy about the “Surrey” addition. The original enumerator did not feel any need to include it in the entry, even though the county names have been scrupulously entered previously. I believe Summerhill may be a farmstead near Monyash, Derbys, by the way.

Now: roll of drums; crash of cymbals…

Also in the Bennett household for census-night is Sarah A Hall (Visitor, aged 8, Scholar, b. Ripley “ditto”, – presumably ditto to “Derby” in entry for Jane Bennett). The handwriting for the “ditto” is that of the original enumerator, and the various “dittos” are, to my eye, definitely for Derbyshire. The modern transcriber (i.e. the ancestry.com apparatchik) is in barbed-wire canoe territory here: no way can that ditto refer to the superscribed “Surrey”.

Q.E.D.

[marp]

I will re-enter the discussion after  an absence.  Thanks to all of you for all the information.  Sarah Ann Hall Brown (my great grandmother) according to family anecdotes was the daughter of Joseph Hall (son of William and Sarah Hall and baptised 11 February 1815 in Denby) and a servant girl living in the household.

So I found John Whysall's information that on the 1861 census night Sarah Ann  was in the household of William and Sarah Hall (parents of Joseph) very interesting indeed.

I have one established piece of information: Sarah Ann (as discussed above) was the wife of Joseph Cresswell and died age 27 on 14 June 1879 and is buried in Ripley cemetery.  Her eldest child Joseph Cresswell  was brought up by his grandparents Joseph and Mary Ann Hall and they appear in the 1881 Ripley census.

1851 census Joseph was listed as age 35 occupation coalminer; wife Mary age 31; daughter Elizabeth Hall age 15 house servant.

1861 Census Ripley Derbyshire  Location Weston Spot, Derby Rd, Ripley
RG9/2512 Folio 11 sch 65
Hall, Joseph age 44 Head,  Grocer & Beer Seller  Born Denby
Hall, Mary  age 38 wife,  born Shrewbury

In 1871 census RG10/3585 Folio 36 Sch. 73  location Green Hillocks, Ripley Derbyshire  listed Joseph  Hall aged 55 occupation inn-keeper born Denby, his wife Mary Ann Hall aged  51 born Wolverhampton(?) and daughter Sarah Ann Brown aged 17 born Ripley. Hannah ? servant aged 12 born Ripley, John Statham- Lodger  age 47 Occupation labourer born Overseal, Derbys

***Joseph Hall was the publican at “The Rising Sun” Marehay, Ripley  (this is information from family members)

In 1881 Ripley  census address Buttterly Hill,  Joseph Hall born Denby aged 65 - Retired publican born Denby,  Wife Mary Hall born Shrewsbury [Shropshire, England] aged 62. Joseph Hall Cresswell aged 7 born Ripley - grandson.

Thanks again for a great discussion.

marp

[marp]

Finally, I sent for Sarah Hall Brown's birth certificate.  Sarah Ann was registered as the child of Isaac Brown (coal miner) and his wife Hannah (formerly Burley) on 31 January 1853 in Ripley. Her mother, Hannah Burley was born in Tadcaster, Yorks.   

Sarah Ann however was not the daughter of Isaac Brown, her father was Joseph Hall.    The Brown family and the Halls were neighbours at Weston Spot, Ripley according to the 1851 census!  The Browns at that time already had two children.

marp

 

[janwhysall]

Interested to read about the Whysalls and Cresswells.

Sarah Ann Hall Brown was the result of an affair between 2 neighbouring families. She was born on Jan 31st 1835 Weston Spot, Ripley. She married Joseph Cresswell B 1848 Ripley.
Joseph was the son of Joseph Cresswell B 1820 Denby and his first wife Eleanor or Ellen Hunt B 1826 Kilburn. Ellen died in 1849 so baby Joseph was living with the Hunt parents on Street Lane, Denby in the 1851C. By the 1861C he had rejoined his father and new wife Mary in Kilburn.
Joseph Cresswell and Sarah Ann had 2 sons - Joseph Hall Cresswell B Feb 14th 1874 Ripley and James Alfred Cresswell B Feb 20th 1876 Ripley. When Sarah died in 1879 the boys were split up - James staying with his father and Joseph going to his grandparents who kept a pub.
James youngest daughter Jessie went on to marry Cyril Whysall, hence the connection.