WATERFIELD in Tavistock

[krissy]

hi debs,
well after reading your reply twice i think i finally got the just of it lol!!! you must be a waterfield at heart we are all a bit like that hee hee. anyway our waterfields oh where do i start? james martin waterfield born in tavistock was the illegit child of elizabeth waterfield we think her mother was also elizabeth and father william ? anyway he was born 1842 in the union workhouse, then he grew up and married emma glubb, and they had a load of kids im sure there were more than the 3 i have, anyway edgar liked to me known as john, he  married louisa harding in 1916, they moved to millbrook in maker cornwall.they had 12 children,(didnt have a telly, lol),agnes,dorothy,john,william,edgar,leonard/winifred,gladys(my mother),beatrice(mo,s mother), marjorie,louie,and nancy.
phew!!!! the family moved to devonport in plymouth where my mother met my father james jefferis, a staff sgt, in the royal army service corps, they had 4 children 3 boys and little old me. i left plymouth to join the army the married a royal marine(silly move) divorced him remarried and am living in wales. thats it maureen (mo) is till living in cornwall with her husband and children . so thats our history,
in the meantime ive asked the cousins to check with all the surviving waterfields f they can throw any light on your mary ann etc. so between us we will hopefully come up with something mo works in the library so may have chance to look up census records etc. so will keep you informed.
meanwhile have a nice day and talk to you soon
krissy

[deb usa]

Hi Krissy
Blimey, I just reread my post and i didn't understand my babbling either ... maybe the red wine talking LOL!
This is just a quick run down again to make things clear:
Mary ann Waterfield (b 1836) had 3 illegits.... the 2nd one was Francis Mitchell Waterfield.
Francis M waterfield married Mary Jane Adams
kids: Winifred
         Gladys
         Hilda
         eddie
         Dorreen
         francis
         Mabel    My Grandmother
 7 girls Blimey lol

Mabel Waterfield married William Middleton....they had 6 kids (3 boys and 3 girls) My dad is the oldest of the boys ... raymond francis terrence middleton.
 so that's it in a nutshell .....
 
thanks for your "story' ...wow how big is this family anyway hee hee
okay i will be back soon ...need to get my papers in order before i can give more info , if any
talk to you soon
Deb

[Valda]

Going back to your original request re Josiah - I think he may have been wrongly enumerated on the 1881 census.

1881 RG11 2197 folio 93
Albert Inn 27 & 28 Morley Place  Plymouth St Andrew  Devon 
Silas Waterfield 22 Tavistock, Devon,  Lodger  Unmarried General Labourer

Marriages Jun 1881
Northmore  Mary     Plymouth  5b 470   
Waterfield  Josiah     Plymouth  5b 470   

1891 census RG12 1732 folio 24
9 Arundel Crescent St Andrew  Devon   
Josiah Waterfield 34 Tavistock, Devon, Head Married labourer in Ship Yard
Mary Waterfield 32 Manistow, Devon, Wife Married
Alfred J Waterfield 8 Plymouth, Devon, Son
Sidney H Waterfield 5 Plymouth, Devon, Son 
Edith M Waterfield 3 Plymouth, Devon,  Daughter 
Lilian M Waterfield 1 Plymouth, Devon,  Daughter 

I can't see a Silas Waterfield on earlier censuses.

Regards

Valda

[deb usa]

Hi Valda
Thanks for your reply .Sorry i have not been back to you sooner ...we had flooding ...phones and computer down.

I had also seen  Silas Waterfield in 1881...was just not too sure how to validate a SILAS with the name JOSIAH.  How can i be certain it's him??? Is there a way or do we just assume that it is an enumeration error?

Also what does make sense that this MAY be him is the fact that we cannot see him in earlier census and the fact that he has now made his way from Tavistock (1861 and 71 census) to St Andrews where he marries Mary Northmore and lives with his family (1881/91 and 1901 census).

I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks once again for responding.... I love hearing from you 

Deb

[Valda]

There is no other Silas Waterfield on earlier or later censuses (in the whole country). There is a Josiah Waterfield on earlier and later censuses but not on the 1881 censuses.
If there is no civil registration information which supports the existence of a Silas Waterfield (which at this point there isn't on FreeBMD) or parish evidence from Tavistock registers then the conclusion must be that it seems unlikely a man called Silas Waterfield existed. Therefore it is very likely the '1881 census man' was 'somebody else' Waterfield. If he was 'somebody else' Waterfield who else could he be of roughly the same age and occupation born Tavistock with a liklihood of being in the Plymouth area who also had to be unmarried in 1881 and missing from that census.
Are there any other candidates except Josiah?

Using elimination as the methodology the best you can do is to say on the balance of probability he is....

The other possibility of proving the connection, using another record, would be to obtain Josiah's marriage certificate. If his address corresponds with the 1881 census address (tricky since he was staying at an inn so he could easily have moved - but on the otherhand his marriage was very close to the date of the census 3rd April) then you might get evidence from that which ties him to the 1881 census entry, or at least places him very closeby within at the most a month and a half of that census date.

You never assume in family history. The twin evils of any family history research are assume or presume - they cause all of us a lot of mistakes. As soon as you spot yourself using either word pull yourself up sharply.

Regards

Valda

[deb usa]

Hi Valda
 I just love reading your replies to me...... you are so eloquent !!!!!~ I just enjoy the way you are able to put things into perspective. I am loving the idea/fact that Silas is Josiah ...which now ties up some loose ends for me.

I was quite excited about a 'find' of mine, but after reading your last paragraph thought .... well maybe it's not a 'find' as it was all assumption and presumption regarding the father of my Francis Mitchell waterfield...the 2nd born illegitimate son of Mary Ann b 1836.
 The info I have found is all a coincidence  regarding a 'Francis Mitchell' who was 10 years older than her and who was not married. I have gone through the censuses and found him living in the same streets as Mary Ann , she was a shoe binder and he was a shoe maker........ All assumption I know ..... but what excitement when I thought I had found a dad for my gr grandad ! 

thanks once again for you reply and interest
deb
 

[krissy]

hi debs,
just thought i would add my own opinion, strange you have come with a similar assumption as we have about james martin waterfield, since like francis he was illigit but was found on census records not with the mother but with the family of martins so either he was named after the family that fostered him out of respect etc; or like you, we have ideas about mr martin being his natural father. all this scandal in the family eh? or is it just our wicked imaginations hee hee 

[criochtun]

Hi all!

Reading through your posts rang some bells with me - especially Chrissie's last posting. James Martin Waterfield lived with my ancestors, William and Joanna Martin. It was James' middle name that interested me - Martin. In the 1861 Census, an Eliza Martin is living next door to William and Joanna, and she has a daughter Eliza, aged 2. Perhaps she is James' mother? In any case, the most interesting thing is that the witnesses to William and Joanna's wedding in 1831 were "William Martin Waterfield" and "Elizabeth Waterfield" - to whom Chrissie refers in her last posting. I wonder if William Martin and William M Waterfield were related somehow...

I look forward to hearing from you and solving the mystery...

Ross.

[terrymo]

Hi

Krissy is my cousin and we are both searching for answers to James Martin Waterfield.   I have always assumed that James probably got his middle name from William Martin, who not only looked after him as a child but seems to have found him work in the same field and allowed him to live with his family until he married. I have my suspicions that William was the father of James, although he already has a son called James, born 1832.

However the Eliza Martin living next door in 1861 only appears to be 33 years old - James was 19 so I think it is unlikely she was his mother. That census also says William is married to Susanna, not Joanna, although in 1851 she is named as Joanna..

more questions than answers I'm afraid.

Mo