WILLIAM HENRY TYSON (BS) Born France 1831-3

[IanLambert]

 
Hi Tanja

Many Thanks for the ifo.   Firstly Mary J's marriage cert doesn't give her fathers birthplace (apologies - again I got confused - I have so much information on many branches of the family)
The Tyson family was, according to family info involved in lacemaking.

I haven't yet made contact on ancestry but will keep trying to try to connect the 2 (?) French Tysons in Salford. The detaisl seem so close B 1831 & 33 AND ALSO THE DEATHS8

All the Tyson details for the 1871 census you gave me match exactly the advanced dates on the 1881 census apart from Willima - (Occpn Striker & birthplace (USA ?) Could this be a mistake ? All childrens ages advance by 10 years as does Martha .

I guess you are right , we can't confirm who the mother of Mary Jane is (Born 4/11/1865 Ardwick, Mcr, according to our family bible) or of Ada or Martha

I really now need to find details of

1)- Mary Jane Tysons birth (4/11/1865)
2)- William's marriages to both Kate (b Ormskirk) &   
      Martha (b Liverpool)
3)- Contact the family tree inititaor for W Tyson on Ancestry
4) - Try to find details for Kate (BM & D)

5) - Try to trace somehow when William came to the Uk (narrowed to between 1831/3 birth & 1861 so far) and aslo who woith and whther he had Frenhc or English parents. family info suggests he was French

Are 1851 census details available ? to show William & Kate (?)

Excellent info on the Hodsons - Many Thanks Thanks - It all seems to tie in. James marraige cert confirms his father as a 'Thomas' , occpn striker and Benjamin's age is about right too. ALSO on James's marriage cert to Mary Jane Tyson one of the witnesses was called Samuel Brandon and the 1901 census you provided shows a Charles Brandon (grandson) residing with them.

   

[Tati]

Manchester/Salford is missing from 1851 

I can't find the marriages either!

Even Mary Jane's birth is eluding me.
Have you already searched the complete indexes here?
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx

Indeed, according to 1891, Charles Brandon is the son of Samuel Brandon (32, Horsehair Drawer, b. Somerset Bristol) and Elizabeth (28, b. Manchester) 

Tanja 

[IanLambert]

Yes Thanks I have - I may have to invetigate one of their other children's births first.
I have found Martha I think, born Sept Q 1876 Chorlton (Which includes Ardwick where Mary Jane was born according to our family Bible) and also the marriage details of a William Henry Tyson to Martha Chandler on the 5th August 1861 at St Thomas Church Heaton Norris, Stockport - even if only to eliminate this.   This record is from the website www.familysearch.org (IGI) and gives William's father as a John Tyson and Martha Chandler's father as a William - From this I have been trying to find Chandlers in Liverpool to see if I can tie in .   I  too cannot find Mary Jane's birth even though I have an exact date from our bible (4/11/1865) 

[IanLambert]

Hi tanja

 

I notice that Thomas Hodson in 1871 has a wife Mary but she is not on the 1861 details - It looks like he too may have married twice and that James, Benjamin & Sarah Ann & Charlotte did not have Mary as their mother unless she was somewhere else temporarily in 1861


Ian

[Manchester Rambler]

Elusive isn't the word for this bunch!

Like both of you, I've been looking for possible birth records, but can only see possibilities for the younger children:

Births Sep 1870
TYSON    Martha       
Chorlton 8c 607

Births Jun 1874
TYSON   Lewis Alexander        
Salford 8d 90

Births Jun 1878
TYSON    William Henry        
Salford 8d 112

Births Jun 1880
TYSON    Emily       
Salford  8d 103

I wonder if Mary Jane was Martha's daughter, born before her marriage to William?  There are plenty of cases where a step-father is given as "father" on marriage certs. (Although I realise that wouldn't fit with the Chandler marriage in 1861.)

Nothing helpful re marriages, either: apart from the Martha Chandler one, no William Tyson seems to have married a Kate (Katherine/Catherine..) or a Martha.

At least a birth cert for one of the children will give Martha's maiden name - frustrating, though, not to be able to find Mary Jane.

Rambler

[IanLambert]

Thanks

From the 1881 census I only got S Tyson but now you have confirmed he is Lewis (birth 1874 & and also from the 1891 census.) This ties in nicely with a later Louis (Mary Jane Tyson & James Hodson's son b 19/8/1899). His name is spelt the French way which again would tie in but is spelt wrongly on some information we have found.

You could be right about Mary Jane & that she might not be Martha's daughter perhaps (Could she be Kate's ?) AND could Kate be French too ?  OR again could the name be spelt wrongly if it was French Tysson, Tisson   I will try this angle too. After all there is a gap of 4 years between Mary Jane (b 1865) & the rest:- Ada (1869) Martha (1870) etc. Could the marriage be between 1865 & 1869 instead ??

The Chandler / Tyson marriage is 1861 looks iffy for two reasons. Firstly if Kate was William's first wife there wouldn't be much of a gap between her showing on the 1861 census (April ?) as William's wife and the marriage to 'Martha' which was august 1861 (Although possible) & secondly Heaton Norris isn't quite between Liverpool & Salford. We need to find when & with whom William came to England & whether he was actually French.

I will try to search for a birth of a Mary Jane in Ardwick on 4/11/1865 although this will be tricky without a surname - (Date & place of birth form our family bible) 

Still need to track down too who put the William Tyson one tree Calais connection on Ancestry.com but no luck so far.

Soooooo... many possibilities but facinating detective work


Ian
 

[Manchester Rambler]

Mary Jane could be Kate's daughter, of course, depending on when Kate died.  However, if Wiliam and Kate were married, her birth ought to have been registered as Tyson, and there doesn't seem to be any trace of it.    Having said that, I can't find a marriage or a death for Kate....

If/when funds will run to it, a birth cert for one of MJ's siblings will give you Martha's maiden name - then you can see if there's a possible birth for MJ under that surname.  It also gives another way of looking for a marriage (if William's name has been mistranscribed, for instance.)

I'm not sure about William/Kate being French - he has an English-sounding name and is listed as a British Subject (it doesn't specify "naturalised"), so I presumed he was born in France, with at least a British father.  However, I'm not an expert, so others may be better-placed to answer that one. 

Rambler

[IanLambert]

Thanks


I had come to the same conclusion that I may have to initially obtain a birth cert for probably Martha (born c 1870) and track back or

One of my relatives said that they thought William was French but again it could just be Chinese whispers and that he was just born in France as you say. and also pursue the Ancestry One Tree record for Willima Henry Tyson born Calais in 1833 to see if he is one and the same as mine   


Thanks for your help



Ian 

[IanLambert]

Thanks for everyones help

I have now found marriage details for Martha & William's son Lewis TYSON in 1896. However it is spelt LOUIS Alexander TYSON, which I think gives more creedence to  William Henry TYSON (BS) being French.

What I would like to know is who found out at Ancestry about the Calais birthplace. If anyone is investigating these TYSONS please get in touch

Also one of the witnesses on the wedding cert I have for Mary Jane TYSON was a Samuel BRANDON and I have now found out that he married Mary Jane TYSON'S elder sister Elizabeth in 1880

Ian