A second baptism. JAMES G. DYSON 1843

[Keith Sherwood]

Hi, Everyone,
Can someone tell me whether it was at all common for infants/young children to be baptised twice.  It's just that I have a JAMES GRAVES (sic) DYSON, who was born 28-08-1843 (I have his birth certificate) who is posted on the familysearch.org site as being baptised at Beetham Church in Westmorland on 20-09-1843, parents Daniel and Isabella.  But there is another baptism listed on the same site for JAMES GREAVES (sic) DYSON at the Holy Trinity Church, Wavertree, Lancs. for 22-10-1843, parents Daniel and Isabella.  I am totally convinced that this individual is one and the same person, and that the GREAVES spelling is the correct variation.  Any thoughts or ideas about whether or why a second baptism might be carried out.
Very best wishes,
Keith Sherwood

[Hackstaple]

There is something else very odd about the Wavertree record. Wavertree is a suburb of Liverpool and relatively far from Beetham in Westmorland. Secondly, Holy Trinity was not a parish church until 1867. Athough built 70 years earlier it was described as a Chapel of Ease until 1867. It would be quite unusual for a baptism to take place there or for any sort of register to be kept. The parents would have had to pay for a  special service and even then the birth would still have been recorded at the nearest parish. All sorts of things do happen to break convention but personally I would certainly like to see some documents before accepting such a record.

[Nick Carver]

In transcribing the local parish records, I saw examples of what was termed a 'conditional baptism' against which it was stated that the parents (or the individual concerned for adult baptism) were not certain if  they were already baptised. I know it sounds hard to imagine, but if you had 12 children, you might well forget if one of them was baptised, especially if you didn't get it done right away. At least one of the examples is against a baptism where four or five siblings were 'done' simultaneously.

The other possible cause of a second baptism that springs to mind is where somebody is baptised into the CofE because of the poor law requirements for that as qualification for assistance and then baptism into another (perhaps non conformist) church.

[Keith Sherwood]

Thanks so much for taking the trouble to reply so swiftly.  James G. Dyson's sister,Isabella, was also posted on this same site as being baptised on 29-03-1846 at Holy Trinity Bts (sic) Wavertree.  I had imagined that as Isabella Dyson (nee Hudson), the mother of James and Isabella, came from the Beetham area her first child was born there before they moved back to Wavertree, where they lived according to their marriage certificate.  But what you say about Holy Trinity Church is rather perplexing too.  A close examination of the baptism records involved in at one of the repositories in the Liverpool area is obviously the next step.
How reliable a source is familysearch.org, anyway, on a scale of 0-100?
Keith

[Hackstaple]

Keith - hold the original records in your hand - that's reliable. Failing that photocopies of them or photo microfiche.
Almost anything else is suspect. A site like familysearch has millions of records. It is not possible for them to be 100% correct or complete.

[trish251]

Hi Keith

When looking at the LDS IGI, its a good idea to check the film details. Looking at your 2 records
1. baptism 28 Aug 1843 is film 0097351 - Bishop's transcripts, 1689-1870  Church of England. Parish Church of Beetham 

2. baptism 22 Oct 1843 is film 1068856  -   Bishop's transcripts of All Saints Church (Speke), Holy Trinity Church and St. Mary's Church (Wavertree), 1876-1880.  Church of England. All Saints Church (Speke, Lancashire) OR Items 3-5 Bishop's transcripts, 1606-1893  Church of England. Parish Church of Halsall (Lancashire)

These are both BTs so yet another level of transcription exists. I have found in my research that sometimes the church scribe, rather than the recent transcribers have made the error. The dates for the second film indicate, as mentioned before, that it could not be the Wavertree - so perhaps it is in the Halsall record.

Genuki gives the history of the Wavetree church http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Wavertree/StMary.shtml
It does mention  In 1837 a small church was built in Sandown Lane, Wavertree Liverpool but this was at first unsuccessful. Premises were rented in Martin's Lane for some time in the 1840s until another start was made in Sandown Lane.

I have found the IGI to be mostly very accurate, but usually (when time permits) order and check their film. This would seem a good idea for these records.

Trish

[Keith Sherwood]

Hi, again,
Another thought on this matter has just occurred to me, in that the registrar and/or vicar must have misheard "Greaves" pronounced as "Graves" (say it in your head with a strong Northern accent), and maybe the parents didn't like to see that their son's middle name was incorrectly spelt both on the birth certificate and in the Beetham parish register.  So I suppose another baptism in Lancashire a month later might have pressed home the point that the middle name was indeed Greaves.  I'm at present trying to link up a Dyson line in Ashton which has a Sarah Greaves marrying into the Dyson line, and perhaps being a reason for this later assumed middle name.
Would an incorrectly heard and transcribed forename be reason enough for another, later baptism?
Keith

[Nick Carver]

From a theological perspective, you cannot have two baptisms. However, if somebody changed from CofE to Church of LDS, then perhaps that would merit a second baptism. I don't think that there was much checking from the vicar of St Marys to the vicar of St Marks to see if Joseph Bloggs had been baptised there.

Could the confusion arise from a very common habit of recycling names? For instance if baby Jane died in infancy, the next girl child was often called Jane. I was tracing some records for somebody recently where in a family of 14 children, only 4 reached adulthood and only 8 different names were used in total, the others were reused. Just a thought.