Author Topic: WHITTLE / CAMPBELL / DONALDSON of Lisburn  (Read 4257 times)

Offline TheWhuttle

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
  • How many boys?
    • View Profile
WHITTLE / CAMPBELL / DONALDSON of Lisburn
« on: Friday 14 July 06 13:17 BST (UK) »
Hi, Are there any kind souls who have access to the church records of Lisburn.
I would like help in confirming some early details of persons listed in a family history.

I don't know for sure that they are in the Lisburn records. However there are strong reasons to believe that they are. [See background below.]

Can't define religious denomination explicitly either.
[But the best search order would likely to be (CoI, Pb, RC).]

Birth of Elizabeth CAMPBELL (~1700)

Marriage of Elizabeth CAMPBELL to Mr. DONALDSON (before 1726) [Mr. DONALDSON likely hailed from Glenavy, though maybe Belfast.  Elizabeth remarried as a widow in Glenavy CoI in 1726 to James WHITTLE.]

Death of Mr. DONALDSON (before 1726) [Though this might have been at Glenavy or Belfast.]

Marriage of Mr.CAMPBELL to ? (~1700)

Birth of Hans CAMPBELL to Mr. & Mrs. CAMPBELL (during 1700-1730)

Death of Mr. CAMPBELL (likely before 1730) [The father of Hans.]

Marriage of James WHITTLE to widow Mrs. CAMPBELL (post 1728) [She was the mother of Hans, by her first husband Mr. CAMPBELL.]

Birth of son James to James WHITTLE & Mrs. WHITTLE (was w. CAMPBELL) (post 1728). [This was the only known (surviving) child of the marriage above.]

Death of James WHITTLE (~1760-1770)

Death of Mrs. WHITTLE (was w. CAMPBELL, His wife, ~1760-1770)

The background to the early connection between a James WHITTLE and two widows (Elizabeth DONALDSON & ? CAMPBELL) comes from the "WHITTLE of Glenavy" family history (written 1919).

I am trying to match it up with:     P. 14594 of the Tenison Groves will transcripts     "Familes Thwaites - Wood" [Source: LDS film no. 258496]
-------------------------------------

Connor Will  signed 8 May 1728   proved 16 May 1728
Elizabeth WHITTLE wife of James WHITTLE of Lisburn, Co. Antrim  soapboiler, has power by her marriage settlement to dispose of £200, which she does as follows ..
£10 to husband James WHITTLE
£20 to her mother
£15 to William STEWART  my sister's son
£60 to sister Mary CAMPBELL who is to be executrix
£20 each to sister Davison, cousin Barbara CAMPBELL & John CAMPBELL my brother's son
£10 to Elizabeth CAMPBELL my brother's daughter
£10 to John BRYAN my eldest sister's son
£5 to Mary SHARPLEY my sister's Margaret's daughter
£5 to John DONALDSON son of Joseph DONALDSON of Glenavy
£5 to Mr James BLOW of Belfast
Witnesses   Richard COULSON, Robt    TOWNSLEY, William CARROLL
Probate to Executrix
-------------------------------------
The will is couched in Lisburn terms (with other places explicitly mentioned), so I conclude that Elizabeth's CAMPBELL immediate relations, like herself, were mostly Lisburn based.
Elizabeth appears to have died quite young (her mother was still alive) and also quite quickly (the will was signed and proved within a week).  So she is likely to have died from something major (scarlet fever or childbirth haemorrage), only a few years in to her second marriage to James WHITTLE.

James WHITTLE subsequently remarried to a widow CAMPBELL, possibly one of Elizabeth's ex-in-law relations, and had a son, also called James WHITTLE (~1730-1801).

There was a firm named CAMPBELL & DONALDSON operating in Belfast.  These people may be associated with it.
[A "car" carrying 172 (?spanish) dollars was robbed on the road between Crosshill and Glenavy on its way to Dublin in June 1765, with this firm offering a reward for its return.  It was probably payment for linen exports.]

I've re-formatted the information from the will transcript in to a more amenable graphic shape.
[The ordering of siblings cannot be totally determined.
 Also, I've assumed the simplest solution for the descent of "cousin" Barbara.]

CAMPBELL, tbd (grandfather) = TBD, tbd (grandmother)
|
|-CAMPBELL, tbd (father) = TBD, tbd (mother, still alive)
| |
| |-CAMPBELL, tbd (brother) = TBD, tbd (sister-in-law)
| | |
| | |-CAMPBELL, John (nephew)
| | |
| | |-CAMPBELL, Elizabeth (niece)
| |
| |-CAMPBELL, tbd (sister, eldest) = BRYAN, tbd (brother-in-law)
| | |
| | |-BRYAN, John (nephew)
| |
| |-CAMPBELL, Margaret (sister) = SHARPLEY, tbd (brother-in-law)
| | |
| | |-SHARPLEY, Mary (niece)
| |
| |-CAMPBELL, tbd (sister) = STEWART, tbd (brother-in-law)
| | |
| | |-STEWART, William (nephew)
| |
| |-CAMPBELL, Elizabeth (self) = WHITTLE, James (husband, soapboiler, Lisburn)
| |
| |-CAMPBELL, Mary (sister, Executrix)
| |
| |-CAMPBELL, Davison (?sister)
|
|-CAMPBELL, tbd (uncle) = TBD, tbd(aunt)
| |
| |- CAMPBELL, Barbara (cousin)

DONALDSON, Joseph (?, of Glenavy) = (?)
|
|-DONALDSON, John (?)

BLOW, James (?, of Belfast)

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, John
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]

Offline waiteohman

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,131
    • View Profile
Re: WHITTLE / CAMPBELL / DONALDSON of Lisburn
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 22 July 06 17:23 BST (UK) »
Hello John

You might find this website helpful
http://www.lisburn.com/lisburn_books.html

I have put it in the Irish Resources today.

Happy searching,
Linda
Dorman, Waite, Moore, Clark/Clarke, Neil, Rennie/Rainey, Brown, Mclean, Day, Millar/Miller, Gunion/Gunzion, Thomson, Black, Milvain, McCubbin, Steadman, Kirby

Offline TheWhuttle

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
  • How many boys?
    • View Profile
Re: WHITTLE / CAMPBELL / DONALDSON of Lisburn
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 26 July 06 09:13 BST (UK) »
Linda,  Thank you very much for the pointer.
I'd come across a smattering of the resources individually before.
However, your post lead me easily in to reading more widely.

This resulted in a connection breakthrough!
A long sought goal - a link between "Glenavy and Guernsey".

I was reading about the history of the cathedral in Lisburn. Then I saw the name "Saumarez DuBOURDIEU". His unusual first name rang a bell. It is the surname of a long-established Guernsey family. [They produced a famous admiral during the Napoleonic wars.]

Saumarez DuBOURDIEU was pastor of the Hugenot church in Lisburn for 45 years until it closed.  When I read that he subsequently became the incumbent at Glenavy CoI (St. Aidan's) during 1780-1812, I got excited!
Ref: http://www.lisburn.com/books/Cathedral/cathedral-1.html
Ref: http://www.lisburn.com/books/Glenavy_past_present/glenavy_past-2.html#VICARS
He appears to have been 95 years old when he died, and to have ministered for a total of 77 years - amazing! Guess the spirit of "Les Evangeliques" might have run strong in him! Ref: www.calvinus.com

Slight fly in the ointment, O'Hart's Pedigrees apparently has SD at Annahilt, Co. Down. ]

I got even more excited when I read also that Saumarez DuBOURDIEU had been christened in the London of the early 18thC.

Many Hugenots had escaped France to settle in the East end of London (particularly Spitalfields), this forced "emigration" being especially heavy in the reign of Queen Anne.

[Saumarez's grandfather James had been murdered in the pogroms of 1684, so Saumarez's father Jean Armand had to be smuggled out of the country as a baby strapped to his mother's back. They joined Saumarez's great-grandfather Isaac, exiled fom Montpelier in 1682 at the age of 85 to London.]

However, I knew from my brother's research, that this marine-commercial & banking end of London was also home to several large international trading families originating from Guernsey, some of whom were so successful and influential that they were elected Mayor of the City.

Could it be ...?

A few hours of firtling around the Internet threw up a present-day DuBOURDIEU family historian contact. He quickly confirmed that Saumarez DuBOURDIEU had been named at his christening in 1717 for his godfather ...
... a Mr. De SAUMAREZ, a Bailiff of Guernsey!
["Monsieur Le Baillif" was the principal operational judicial officer of the Royal Court (known as "The Greffe") in Guernsey's capital St. Peter Port.]

This De SAUMAREZ godfather can't have been a casual aquaintance, so the DuBOURDIEU family must be associated with the island of Guernsey somehow.
[Perhaps they escaped through the Channel Islands and were ferried over to London by the De SAUMAREZs 30 years earlier ...]

For my research this means:
During a central period of the WHITTLE family's existence at Glenavy (and possibly in Lisburn earlier, if my initial post comes up trumps!) there was a key figure with Guernsey associations preaching to them every Sunday.
 ... and no doubt reminiscing a bit about it afterwards in the Glebe house, whilst supping a few sherries in the company of his vestrymen / wardens, James WHITTLE (d. 1801) and subsequently his youngest son Stafford Gorman WHITTLE (d.1861), both of Thistleborough, Ballyshannaghill, Camlin.

[This family had extensive trading links in linen, cotton, woolens, corn,
tobacco, flour, alcohol, etc.  so were well known to the international mariner community.]

Cracking stuff.  It is good to chat!  Many many thanks once again.  John
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]


Offline waiteohman

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,131
    • View Profile
Re: WHITTLE / CAMPBELL / DONALDSON of Lisburn
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 26 July 06 13:13 BST (UK) »
Glad to hear John.

I believe my Dormans & Rennies to be from there. It was great to find both their names on a Huguenot document there, especially as I knew the Dorman name had been changed.

If you ever see any connections to Dorman or Rennie please drop me a line.

Linda
Dorman, Waite, Moore, Clark/Clarke, Neil, Rennie/Rainey, Brown, Mclean, Day, Millar/Miller, Gunion/Gunzion, Thomson, Black, Milvain, McCubbin, Steadman, Kirby

Offline waiteohman

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,131
    • View Profile
Re: WHITTLE / CAMPBELL / DONALDSON of Lisburn
« Reply #4 on: Monday 28 August 06 02:21 BST (UK) »
Hello again John

I was looking back at a document of interest to me off that Lisburn website I originally mentioned and found additional information on your Saumarez Dubourdieu and  there is even a bust of him.
See: The Huguenot Pastors of Lisburn
http://www.lisburn.com/books/huguenots/huguenots_4.html

Linda
Dorman, Waite, Moore, Clark/Clarke, Neil, Rennie/Rainey, Brown, Mclean, Day, Millar/Miller, Gunion/Gunzion, Thomson, Black, Milvain, McCubbin, Steadman, Kirby

Offline waiteohman

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,131
    • View Profile
Re: WHITTLE / CAMPBELL / DONALDSON of Lisburn
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 05 April 09 06:23 BST (UK) »
Hello John

As you were interested in the Rev Dubourdieu, it is reported he was in Hillsborough, County Dublin before Lisburn, Co. Antrim.

Came across this transcription for The Belfast News-Letter, 28 September 1756 :
"The Rev. Saumarez Dubourdieu, A.M. late master of the school at Hillsborough near Leixlip in the county of Dublin, and now Minister of the French Church in Lisburn ..
Lisburn, July 13, 1756"
http://www.irelandoldnews.com/Belfast/1756/SEP.html

Linda
Dorman, Waite, Moore, Clark/Clarke, Neil, Rennie/Rainey, Brown, Mclean, Day, Millar/Miller, Gunion/Gunzion, Thomson, Black, Milvain, McCubbin, Steadman, Kirby