McDougall/ Caskie from Islay

[debi-robo]

My GGGG Grandparents were Allan McDougall and Mary Caskie from Portnahaven, Islay

I have their death certs and know of some of their children from Ted Larsons site, however i cannot find their marriage or birth records anywhere.

Can anyone help please ?

Variations of the surnames include McDugald, McDougald, McDongall, Caskey.

Allan McDougall died 21 Dec 1883, 70 years old, parents recorded as Allan McDougall and Mary McFeddgen, Informant was John MacDougall (son).

Mary Caskie McDougall died 31 Aug 1913, 92 years old, parents recorded as John Caskey and Isabella Cameron, informant was John Ferguson (grandson)

children of Allan and Mary from Islay BMD's
Allan McDugald born 9 Dec 1842, Portnahaven
Dugald McDugald born 18 Apr 1847, Portnahaven
Margaret McDugald born 17 Mar 1850, Portnahaven
Neill McDongall born 21 May 1854, Portnahaven
Mary McDougall born 7 June 1857, Portnahaven
Bell McDougald born 5 Nov 1860, Portnahaven

I would sincerely appreciate any help or advice.

Thanks
Debbie

[Gadget]

Hi Debbie

I've had a look at the two birth records of the childen born after 1855. This normally gives the place and date of marriage of the parents. Interestingly, none of the Portnahaven registrations around those time have this info recorded.

What religion were they?

Gadget

[debi-robo]

Hi Gadget

I have no confirmation of Allan and Marys religion but there daughter Mary my ggg gran recorded her religion as protestant in 1902.

Thanks for any assitance you can give!

Debbie

[Gadget]

Hi Debbie

I have done a very broad search for a marriage but haven't found anything.

My only conclusion is that it was most likely what is called an 'irregular marriage' or common law marriage which were recognised under Scottish Law. It is described here:

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&406

Others might have further information on this.

Gadget

[debi-robo]

Thanks gadget

Thankyou for taking the time to look, much appreciated!

Debbie

[runner]

Hi Debbie

I see that Gadget was not able to find any traces of marriage for Allan and Mary for you.
It may be that there is no paper record of any sort for them. Remember that you are talking about an island wher Gaelic was the everyday language. Only the educated few spoke English and they would be perhaps the Minister, the school teacher and probably the factor for the estate. Most of the population would not be literate and the majority of the inhabitants would be on crofts and holdings sometimes miles apart. Although Statutory Registration began in 1855 it took rather longer than on the mainland for proper, full recording to be accepted and followed,
Just think! If you had to walk ten miles, often across open moor, up hill and down dale just to register an event, you might think twice about it.

One possible source of information might be estate records from Islay. If they still exist they would likely be lodged amongst the Scottish Archive collections. They would not tell you who married whom, but at least you might find out who, lived where, on the island.

I have more or less given up hope of finding my ancestors on North Uist and that's after I paid for a professional researcher who knows the Islands inside out.

We forget that they lived in a land divided as much by language as by income and learning.

Russell

[Gadget]

However Russell,

There is no marriage date on the birth records of the two children born after 1855 - and these were registered in 1857 and 1860 - I've looked at the images.

I think it was most likely an irregular marriage. Sessions minutes might help and, as you say, estate records.

Could you tell me - would the Sessions minutes be written in Gaelic or would the clerk have to be an English speaker?

Gadget

[runner]

Hi Gadget

That is a question I don't think. has come up before (no doubt someone will dredge up a reply from ?? years ago!).

Gaelic is predominantly an oral language but is mainly the influence of the Church and its bi-lingual ministers that led to the standardisation of the written form of language.
Since the ministers usually chaired Session meetings they would probably record minutes in English. You only have to look at some of the place names to see that gaelic spelling was complicated to embrace the sounds unique to the language.
I haven't actually set eyes on any session minutes from that time but would guess English since that would be the language in which they were instructed.
Gaelic was not taught. It was learned

Mmmmhh!  Another line of enquiry to pursue!
This board raises more questions than it answers.
If anyone out there is about to look at the Islay records maybe they can give us a definitive answer.

Russell

[debi-robo]

Hi Gadget and Russell

Thankyou both for your interest and assistance.

Would the session Min's for islay be held at NAS in Edinburgh ?
Also, does anyone know which church they might have attended.


I have found the 1841 census for Mary Caskie parents

Portnahaven, Islay
Balmennach (is this a farm?)

John Caskey, 40, Ag Lab , b. Argyll
Isabella Caskey, 50,        , b. Argyll
John Caskey, 30,              , b. Argyll
Mary McDugald, 18,          ,b. Argyll
Janet McIntyre, 6,             ,b. Argyll

It seems Mary was already married to Allan McDugald at this stage, though i can find no trace of him anywhere.

It is pretty obvious that i don't know much about what life on Islay would have been like at the time, can you recommend some informative websites please and maybe some maps.

Thanks again
Debbie