Birth details Hilda Aylmore

[pennielane]

Hi, I am looking for the birth details of my Grandmother Hilda Aylmore born 12/6/1891 in Whitstable, Kent. the details I have from her marriage certificate are that she was living at 2 Marmion Terrace, Whitstable, Kent in 1918. she was 27 years old. it states her father was Frederick Aylmore, occupation - Master Mariner, I don't have any details of her mother or any siblings.  My Grandfather was William Fuller Milner aged 31 years old, occupation Corporal Royal Engineer service number 331620 it states that he was a widower but I have no other details of his former wife or if there were any siblings from this marriage. He was living at 6 Granby Terrace, Sowham. Cambridge. his father was Carlton Milner occupation master butcher. there is a Scottish connection as my father was born in troon,ayrshire. other brothers and sisters that I know of are Silvi Milner,my father William Fuller Milner, Margory Milner, Hazel Milner, Hilda Milner and Ronnie Milner.
My grandfather died of TB and my grandmother remarried a Harry Waite there were two children from this marriage James Waite and Harry Waite, any help would be most appreciated. Regards Pennielane

[AMBLY]

Hi Pennielane

Welcome to Rootschat!

This is Hilda in 1901 with her mother & siblings; and her mother's Step-Father.
Has been indexed as AGLMORE , but is clearly AYLMORE on image

1901 -  Whitstable Urban,  Kent 
Ecclesiastical parish: Whitstable All Saints 
RD: Blean   Sub-RD: Whitstable   ED:5
ADDRESS: 88 Albert Street
Head: Ann AYLMORE 31, marr, Husband away at sea, b Whitstable Kent
Dau: Maud AYLMORE 13,  b Whitstable Kent
Dau: Hilda AYLMORE 9,  b Whitstable Kent
Son: Porter AYLMORE 7,  b Whitstable Kent
SOn: William AYLMORE 5,  b Whitstable Kent
Son: Edward H AYLMORE 2, b Herne, Kent
Dau: Ruby AYLMORE 1mnth,  b Whitstable Kent
Step-Father: James MITTEN 49, wid, Domestic Gardener,  b Brighton Sussex

Prior to that (1891, 1881)  I don't think things are quite so straightforward!
I know you are after Hilda's birth.....and perhaps sorting her parents out first may help find it......

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

1891 - Seasalter,  Whitstable Kent
RD: Blean  Sub RD:Whitstable , ED: 10
ED, institution, or vessel:10
REF: Class: RG12; Piece: 711; Folio 127; Page 5
Address: Ship Yd -  High Streeet
Head: John MITTEN 42, (Groom) Ostler, b Hawkhurst Kent
Wife: Emma MITTEN 50, b Whitstable Kent
Son: Edward MITTEN 15, b Whitstable Kent
Son: George KELSEY 25, General Labourer, b Whitstable Kent
Dau: Annie KELSEY 19, b Whitstable Kent
Son: Walter KELSEY 17, (Seas) Mariner, b Whitstable Kent
Dau: Maud KELSEY 3, b Whitstable Kent

1881 Whitstable Kent
RD:Blean  Sub RD :Whitstable  ED: 2
REF: Class: RG11; Piece: 964; Folio: 30; Page: 19
Address: 3 Horsebridge Road
Head: James MITTEN 30?*, Groom, b Hatfield, Sussex
Wife: Emma MITTEN 47, Groom's Wife, b Whitstable Kent
Dau: Minnie MITTEN 10, Scholar, b Ashurst Sussex
Son: Albert MITTEN 9, Scholar, b Ashurst Sussex
Son: Edward MITTEN 6, Scholar, b Whitstable Kent
StepSon: George KELSEY 14, Scholar, b Whitstable Kent
StepDau: Ellen KELSEY 9, Scholar, b Whitstable Kent
StepSon: Walter KELSEY 7, Scholar, b Whitstable Kent

* Enumerator has made a mark thru James' 1881 age - looks like 30, but could be other than 0.

The ages are all over the place for James/John MITTEN, and the birthplace is different when he is John - the children say this is the same family 1881/1891 but is John the same man as James??

Emma also has a very fluid age - this looks like her death, which would match her age 50 in 1891 - yet in 1881 she is definitely enumerated as 47, not 40 or 41....
Deaths Mar Qtr  1899 - RD: Blean, Ref: 2a 578   
Mitten  Emma Elizabeth  age 69

As to Annie KELSEY 1891 - this looks like the one who is Ann AYLMORE on 1901 - but is she also "Ellen" KELSEY on 1881 (a misheard name?) And  Maud KELSEY , on 1891 is she more than likely Annie's daughter, not Emma's, and is the same Maud AYLMORE on 1901 as  Hilda's sister.....?

So, given it looks like Hilda's mother maybe still unmarried as Annie KELSEY in Census in  April 1891, it is possible Hilda was named KELSEY or maybe even MITTEN, on her birth records for June that same year, not AYLMORE.

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

And here she is 

Births Sep Quarter 1891
KELSEY   Hilda Aylmore
RD:  Blean 
REF: Vol: 2a  page 836

Looks like the lot of them will take some sorting!

As for a marriage betwixt Ann KELSEY and Frederick AYLMORE - look for it between 1891 and 1893 - but nothing coming up -  Hilda's younger siblings are all registered as AYLMORE:
Births Sep Q 1893 Aylmore Porter   RD: Blean 2a853
Births Sep Q 1895 Aylmore William   RD: Blean 2a865
Births Dec Q 1898 Aylmore Edward Herbert  RD Blean 2a847
Births Mar Q 1901 Aylmore Ruby  RD Blean 2a905

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

Arghh!  I said there'd be some sorting needing doing 

I checked marriages images June Quarter 1891, and got to June Quarter 1892:

Porter AYLMORE
Ann KELSEY
RD: Blean
REF: Vol 20, Page 1399

Noting, Ann AYLMORE's  son Porter on 1901 - born 1893.
No Frederick getting wed same page (thinking 2 brothers marrying same day....)

Cheers
AMBLY
Going Bonkers - just looking at Porter AYLMORE's  in Census ...coming up....

[AMBLY]

This is Porter AYLMORE's family in 1871:

1871 - Bosham Sussex
RD :Westbourne Sub-RD :Westbourne ED2
REF: Class: RG10; Piece: 1124; Folio: 21; Page: 6
Address: Mariners Ter.
Head:  Porter H AYLMORE 37, Mariner. b West Wittering Susses
Wife: Caroline AYLMORE 41, b West Wittering Sussex
Son: William T AYLMORE 11, Scholar, b Itchenor Sussex
Son: Porter AYLMORE 10, Scholar, b Itchenor Sussex
Son: Frederick AYLMORE 8, Scholar, b Itchenor Sussex
Dau: Letitia AYLMORE 7, Scholar, b Itchenor Sussex
Son: Willis AYLMORE 2, b Itchenor Sussex

Father is Porter Hero AYLMORE, Mother is Caroline TOWES, Married Jun Qtr 1852  Westhampnett  Sussex. They are quite identifiable on Census,

Note the little brother Frederick.

Now we are getiing back to the the part of Sussex in which Tazzie found a birth record of another Hilda AYLMORE  in STeyning Sussex 1891 (as it happens, there was a Maud Alice AYLMORE in born 1888 Qtr Westhampnett Sussex too, but I am not sure this is your Hilda's sister - maybe related thought as the AYLMORE's seem to come from that part of Sussex).

AND here is a link:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=REG&db=afulsang&id=I1173
Someone is actively researching this exact AYLMORE  family and has a current tree posted on Rootsweb (with an email address) .  She hasn't much listed for the 2 brothers, but may have informatuion note on the web-tree.

Cheers
AMBLY

[tazzie]

   Ambly....

  Frederick is on vessels in 1881 as a seaman....could be frederick is the dad but she married Porter...stranger things happen..

                 Tazzie

[AMBLY]

Hi tazzie 

Yeah, I saw that too

The 2 Brothers -
Porter AYLMORE born abt 1861 Itchenor
Frederick AYLMORE born abt 1862 Itchenor

In 1881: Frederick
In Port  at Stranton, Co.Durham
Frederick AYLMORE, 19, single, Seaman, b Itchinor Sussex - crew on the vessel "Busy Bee".
I's a small ship - there is 4 crew including the master.

In 1891: Frederick ??

In 1881: Porter
I believe he is visiting a family named MOUNTFIELD in Alverstoke Hampshire, and has been mis-enumerated as Peter:
Visitor: Peter AYLMORE 20, single, Mariner, b Bosham Sussex

In 1891: Porter
Porter AYLMORE 28, single, Mate, b Chichester Sussex, crew on the vessell "Guide".
It's a small vessel -  9 crew in all including the master.
(has been indexed as age 23 but it is clearly 28!!. POB is a o bit out too, but still think this is him.

As a note, in 1901 their father Porter Hero AYLMORE is on a small vessell two (2 of the crew are also AYLMORE's) and is on the Lincolnshire Census as a vessel in port on the Humber. He is similar in 1881, as P H AYLMORE,

This seems to indicate these men were perhaps not sailors on the High Seas (ie not going back and forth to America or Australia etc). and therefore if Frederick died btw 1881 and  1893 it should be on the local BDM records and not a "Marine Death abroad"....??

I think it's very possible too, that  Ann was first Fred's girl, with whom she had Hilda out of Wedlock. Then something happened to poor Fred before he could make an honest woman of her (and a death could have occurred any time in the 9 months prior to Hilda's birth).  Later, Porter became more than her "brother and law" and Hilda's uncle, and became her husband. Romantic I'd say! (And all supposition too!).

Cheers
AMBLY

[pennielane]

Dear Ambly, this is wonderful stuff and now that you have found Frederick what you say makes good sence, do you know when Frederick died?. and have you managed to find out who was living in Hilda house when she got married or can you tell me how to search this?. although you seem to enjoy helping people with their searching, and from what I have just read about Frederick and Porter I think I will send for Hilda Aylmore Kelsey's birth certificate to see what it might reveal.

Kind regards Pennielane