Author Topic: Trying to prove second marriage - Help Please  (Read 2433 times)

Offline Huron

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Re: Trying to prove second marriage - Help Please
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 11:44 BST (UK) »
Hi,

In 1851 Amy was living at 4 John Street, Milton, Gravesend. Listed as the Head, married, 45, wife of a shoemaker, born in Hernehill, Kent. Her unmarried daughters Amy, 17, Agnes, 15 and Esther, 9, all born in Faversham, were with her. Another family shared the same house, William Eves, listed as Head, 59, a gardener born in Bexhill, Kent, his wife Ann, 57, who I think was born in Exeter (the enumerator gets the lines muddled up), and their children Matilda and Charles. The neighbour was a Henry Eves, 26. I couldn't find any other neighbours that would be likely relatives of Amy, and haven't found a connection to the Eves, so no idea what she was doing there.

In 1861 James is in Bermondsey living with his son Walter (who was away for the census but Walter's wife Elizabeth is there with him). I've seen the 1859 marriage certificate for Walter and Elizabeth and James was the witness. His signature is very, very shaky, so I always assumed the 1862 one was his. On FreeBmd the age isn't transcribed so perhaps it was very hard to read?

I found a will for Richard Francis of Mersham, born 1682, who from the property he owned, and where children lived I feel confident is the right person to be James' great grandfather, via his father John Francis married to Sarah Thurston, and his grandfather John Francis married to Catherine Kennet. I can't find my notes from the National Archives where I found the will, though, and hadn't typed them up yet, so need to have a proper look for them to confirm everything. When I do I'll put the rest of the tree back to him together. Assuming he is the right person, almost certainly his father was Leonard Francis married to Elizabeth Draper in Mersham in 1681. That's as far back as I've managed to go with the Francis line so far.


 

Offline josey

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Re: Trying to prove second marriage - Help Please
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 12:16 BST (UK) »
Is there any way of proving this is the same William?
Will a marriage certificate state that this is his second marriage (to Agnes)?
I see you haven't been online here since 2012 but did you get any further with the original query, atth2o? Did you ever get the 1844 & 1878 marriage certificates?

They will state William's father's name & occupation for comparison, also whether Agnes was a spinster or widow.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 said to be nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou, NS: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline trish1120

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Re: Trying to prove second marriage - Help Please
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 12:59 BST (UK) »
25 December 1844 Milton-Next-Sittingbourne, Kent, England
William ATTWATER, Father MARSHALL Attwater
Effield CHAMBERS, Father RICHARD Chambers

24 Dec 1878, Upchurch, Kent
William ATTWATER age 52, Widowed, Father MARSHALL Attwater
Agnes COVENEY, 46, Single, Father WILLIAM Coveney

Both on Familysearch.Org


Even if the original poster is not around it may help someone else in the future.

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline Janet Mc

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Re: Trying to prove second marriage - Help Please
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 13:11 BST (UK) »
Okay - I have got back to John Francis married to Sarah Thurston and then the previous generation with Katherine Kennett. Not sure which birth is hers. Do you know?

Yes, I'd be very interested in the transcription for the Richard F will ... also how do you know that James Francis (musician) originally apprenticed as a shoemaker?

Can you please attach the 'shaky' signature of James Francis?

Thank you so much. I feel the urge to get digging again with this branch of the family.

Offline josey

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Re: Trying to prove second marriage - Help Please
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 13:13 BST (UK) »
Good finds, Trish. I didn't look any further myself but as you say, may help someone sometime.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 said to be nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou, NS: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline Huron

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Re: Trying to prove second marriage - Help Please
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 27 September 17 20:47 BST (UK) »
Hi Janet,

A fellow named Wallace Harvey wrote a book about Thomas Clark, a composer, who was friends of James Francis, and wrote "James Francis became a singer of some renown, was apprenticed to William Clark, Cordwainer of St. George's Street, Canterbury about 1803 and became in consequence a great friend of Thomas the musical composer, son of William Clark. James married and lived at Faversham. He raised a large family of whom three sons, Frederick, Walter and Edward were very musical."

James mentions his profession as shoe maker in the 1813 Faversham baptism records, and In 1830 he was made a Freeman of the City of Canterbury, listed as having apprenticed with William Clarke as a Cordwainer (shoemaker) from 1795 for 7 years.

I don't have a birth for Catherine Kennett. There was one born in 1724 in Boughton Aluph, which is only 6 miles from where John Francis and Catherine got married, so could well be the right one, but just a guess for now.

I'm not sure how to attach documents, or whether that's allowed here for copyright reasons?

Offline Maid of Kent

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Re: Trying to prove second marriage - Help Please
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 20 September 20 21:54 BST (UK) »
villiam Attwater
England, Kent, Parish Registers, 1538-1911





Name:   
William Attwater
Ereignistyp:   
Marriage
Ereignisdatum:   
24 Dec 1878
Ereignisort:   
Upchurch, Kent, England
Geschlecht:   
Male
Alter:   
52
Familienstand:   
Widowed
Geburtsjahr (geschätzt):   
1826
Name des Vaters:   
Marshall Attwater
Name des Ehepartners:   
Agnes Coveney
Geschlecht des Ehepartners:   
Female
Alter des Ehepartners:   
46
Familienstand des Ehepartners:   
Single
Geburtsjahr des Ehepartners (geschätzt):   
1832
Name des Vaters des Ehepartners:   
William Coveney

Ifound this on the Latter Day Saints site, Wlliam Attwater, year of birth approx.1826,name of father Marshall Attwater. married 24th december Upchurch Kent, male, age 52, widowed, married Agnes Coveney,female age 46 single, year of birth approx 1832 name of father William Coveney,

well it is his second marriage as it says he is widowed.

hope this helps
Kidney,Kitney Detling Stockbury Chatham. Wenham Biddenden. Waltham.  Pemble Birchington/St Peters. Sibun Medway Chatham/Gravesend