Ship owners - Sunderland & South Shields

[Cherielynn]

Our shipowner Henry Havelock Lee's daughter Mary Caroline Carrie Lee Kidd was living in New York in 1912 and her granddaughter Eloise Kidd visited her from Green Bay, Wisconsin in 1912

Kidd Eloise and Caroline 18 Oct 1912 Eloise visited New York with her grandmother Caroline

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/10143854/kidd_eloise_and_caroline_18_oct_1912/

Hope I have done this correctly - if I have not I will learn again to do it properly - thank you

[Westoe]

Came through fine, Cherie Lynn.

[Cherielynn]

The newspapers were amazing for the family in Green Bay, notice after notice of one visiting the other, events and activities and clubs and after thinking of them obscure in Green Bay.

This shows that John had Mary Caroline Carrie Lee Kidd living "on the west side", which is the west side of the Fox river n(she would have been boarding in a nice house which happens to be that of her son's future father-in-law Pierre Salvas dit Laviolette.

John was selling Ridpath's and giving lectures on Hamlet -

Green Bay Weekly Gazette,  03 Jun 1896, Wed,  Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/10144390/john_kidd_visits_caroline/

and Caroline went to visit John while off selling

 Green Bay Press-Gazette,  10 Aug 1896, Mon,  Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/10144087/

they were in Wisconsin and Michigan's Upper Peninsula certainly through 1906

 Green Bay Press-Gazette,  16 Mar 1906, Fri,  Main Edition,  Page 7

this article ran three times that I saw leading up to and after his talk

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/10070942/kidd_16_mar_1906_john_kidd_and_hamlet_2/

[Cherielynn]

Went looking and Clara Jane Lee Kendall wife of John Kendall, daughter of Ship Owner of Sunderland and South Shields, Henry H Lee (I bet its Henry Havelock Lee) died 21 March 1935
... of 1 Berkeley-ave Rusholme, Manchester the admin is her daughter Annie Clara Gibbons (wife of Gordon Colingwood Gibbons) [ONE L in colingwood in will book] over 300 pounds Probate April 24

I searched all I could and got nothing else on the couple

Also another descendant of James Hutton Kidd and Harriet Alice Lee Kidd (Harriet daughter of Ship owner Henry and sister of Clara) and from New Zealand turned up - I suggested to read this and hope will add info or share hello them self.

Will: Ancestry.com. England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.

[Nara]

Hello Helen

I am also a descendant of Anne Havelock, daughter of Sophia Louisa Martin/Egerton and Thomas Havelock.
Sophia Louisa's origins are very difficult to trace.

There are two claims from the same publisher, Nichols and Sons, one year apart (essentially identical claims) the first 1881 and the second in 1882 that Sophia Louisa's father Thomas Martin was the secretary to the Marquis of Granby.  The first claim was published in 1881 in "The Baronetage and Knightage" by Joseph Foster and the second "The Peerage of the British Empire for 1882: With the Orders of Knighthood".

I contacted the staff of His Grace David Manners, present Duke of Rutland, to verify the claim(s).
The Archivist, His Grace, plus an historian currently working with His Grace all of whom  "have both extensive and intensive knowledge of the correspondence of the Great Marquis of Granby, and of his son Charles when he was Marquis  have not come across a Thomas Martin in any official capacity".

If you have a birth or baptism record for Sophia Louisa Martin/Egerton,  I would really appreciate knowing the location and date of her birth and confirmation of the names of both her parents. I am about to consult an expert in genealogy and information that you could provide would be most helpful.

Once I have new information about Sophia Louisa Martin/Egerton and her father I will share it with you.

Kindest regards.

BBB

I know exactly what you mean regarding trying to find Sophia's origins and antecedents and I am very sorry to disappoint you but I only have the records of marriage, death and a reference to husband Thomas applying for financial help in her regard.

it seems there are only tiny, tantalising hints and nothing concrete so far. Someone told me that she may have been illegitimate but whether that was any more than speculation I could not ascertain as I never heard any more from said person, whose details I cannot now recall.

I did employ a researcher, years ago, to try and find the births and baptisms of Ann and her sister, without result at the time. It was through help from a couple of other researchers and Marion Woolgar, who does immense and invaluable research into the Woolgar families, mainly from Sussex; that the birth, baptism and other records were discovered.

I wish you luck and also wish I could contribute to the research costs but it's not possible at present.

Just thought I should mention that I funded research into finding the will of Thomas Havelock's father but without success.

If I ever find anything more I will happily Share it with you.

Good luck and thank you for the comment

Regards and more

I too am descended from Thomas Havelock and Sophia Louisa Egerton?!

Has anyone found any clues about her in the last 8 years lol.