Author Topic: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE  (Read 9175 times)

Offline tia.huckle

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 23 June 16 23:53 BST (UK) »
Hi,
my names Tia Huckle 😊 I'm almost certain your talking about my family as I've heard my nan mention nearly all of the names I see in your posts. I don't know if i could be of any help, but if i can, my email is [email protected]

Kind regards,
Tia

Offline Bearcub

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 31 January 17 23:44 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

I'm very late to the party and not sure if any of you are still active?

I'm not sure if I'm talking about the same family or not, but I'm trying to find the birth of a George Leggett.... He was born about 1838/1839 in either Henlow or Shefford (from 1861 - 1891 census'). He married Mary Ann Young in 1861 in Thriplow, Cambs and became a Fishmonger in Stevenage. His marriage certificate gives his fathers name as George Leggett also and at the time of his marriage he was a resident of Hitchin, Herts.

I cannot find a birth/baptism in any of these areas nor any sign of him in the censuses of 1841 and 1851. I thought I had found him, but the fathers name was Charles (which I now know his not him).

My George was the father of Emily Leggett (born 5 October 1866) who was my Great Grandmother.

If we're talking about the same family, I would love to hear from you.

Thanks

Andrea

Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 01 February 17 10:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Andrea

I'm still on this board, but to call me active would be an exaggeration!

I don't think he was born as late as 1838/9 despite the age given on marriage, 22, and in subsequent censuses - 23, 33, 43, 53 with birthplace either Henlow or Shefford. I think he was George Legate son of George and Charlotte (Ward) Legate baptised in Shillington on 20 Oct 1833. This fits with other facts known about him other than his age. In 1841 this one was still living in Shillington aged 8 as George Legget, and in 1851 he was a servant age 16 in Clifton, but born Henlow.

There are too many inconsistencies to make me 100% sure, and he didn't name one of his many daughters Charlotte, which would have helped. What also concerns me is the  gap between marriage in 1861 and the birth of his first child Elizabeth in 1863/4, which makes me wonder if there could have been an earlier child.

I'm afraid that this is the best I could come up with for him, and it's less than perfect.

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell


Offline marynunn

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 01 February 17 20:10 GMT (UK) »
HI, yes we are the same family, with the fish shop in Middle Row, I'm afraid I have to agree with Bedfordshire "Dave who was very helpful when I was searching.

KINd Regards Mary

Offline Bearcub

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 02 February 17 00:15 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks both,

I had found that record but had discounted it....

As you say, I'm just not sure. I do agree that ages can be unreliable on census records etc, but he seems so consistent about his age on the later census records, which also align with his marriage certificate age and his death cert age (56 years old in 1894). It's the 1841 census which troubles me the most. age 2 or 3 versus age 8 just feels a bit wrong. But, there just doesn't seem to be anything else likely....

You mentioned that the Shillington baptism fits with other facts known about him (except the age). Could you let me know why else you think that's him or is just that this is the only local baptism with a father named George Leggett (Legate)?

I hope you don't think I'm being rude. I very much appreciate that you've been looking at this for far longer than me and I'm happy with any leads!

Thank you

Andrea


Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 02 February 17 13:49 GMT (UK) »
I'm not a fan of the Meatloaf method of genealogy two out of three ain't bad. The name's right, the age is right, the place is wrong but don't be sad, cos two out of three ain't bad. In this case it's only one out of three! The name's right, the age is wrong and the place is wrong. The other thing that's right is the father's name from the marriage certificate.

Let's go through all of the considerations:

- Legate is not a common name, so it's not a difficult job to put all the Legates in Henlow and the adjoining villages into family groups

- there are only three George Legate baptisms in Beds in anything like the right time frame 1833 in Shillington father George (who was from Henlow); 1834 in Henlow, son of Charles; and 1847 in Blunham son of George, who lived in Henlow (All Legate roads lead to Henlow!). The 1847 one can be discounted,  as not only is he too young, he's easily traced in censuses as marrying Emma Capon. The 1834 George had Charles as father which conflicts with the marriage, was living in Henlow with father Charles in 1851 aged 16 and was in Brentford Union Workhouse in 1881, although I lose him in censuses between times, so I think he can be discounted too.

- Which just leaves the 1833 Shillington George. The family moved around a bit within a very tight radius married in Henlow, where they baptised one child, then moved to Shillington, then to Clifton in the 1851 census although one daughter says she was born in Clifton in 1839, then to Shefford in 1861. I'm not surprised that George junior didn't seem to know where he was born!

- Unless of course there was another unbaptised George born around 1838 of whom there's no trace in 1841 and 1851. In which case what happened to Shillington George who disappears off the radar screen after 1851? No census appearance, no burial/death.

- So for me there are three options: (i) he was an unbaptised George b 1838 in either Henlow or Shefford, of whom there's no trace before his marriage in Cambs (but there's no George going spare in the district who could have been his father); (ii) a variation of (i) he was an unbaptised illegitimate George, son of one of the many Legate girls in Henlow, but who doesn't appear in 1841 and 1851 and who invented a father for his marriage certificate (to me this option is getting pretty desperate!); and (iii) he was the George baptised in Shillington in 1833 who disappears after 1851 and he shed 5 years off his real age and lived in Hitchin/Stevenage.

It's down to the balance of probabilities. It's not as though there are spare Georges floating around in censuses, or that there are possible deaths/burials. I prefer option (iii), that for whatever reason he consistently lopped 5 years off his age from his marriage onwards, but I agree that there's no cast iron proof.

If anyone can find any other relevant facts that add to the equation I'm more than happy to reconsider

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline Bearcub

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 02 February 17 17:27 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks David,

That's really helpful. I appreciate you laying out all the considerstions. I did have a chuckle at your 'there are no 'spare' George's floating around in the censuses....

I tend to agree that it seems the most likely of all the options.

Regards

Andrea

Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 02 February 17 17:46 GMT (UK) »
You're welcome.

I'm never very happy with a "most likely of the possibilities" scenario but I'm afraid that's what it is with this one, unless a piece of evidence turns up unexpectedly.

George was my 3rd cousin 3 times removed, so not exactly a close relation!

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline Bearcub

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Re: 1861 Lookup Please - LEGATE
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 02 February 17 17:55 GMT (UK) »
No, I don't like the 'most likely' situation either (and I liked your Meatloaf analogy too!), but sometimes I guess you have to make leaps of faith and hope some other break through materialises in the future... On another line of mine, some recently digitised London records unlocked something that I've been banging my head against a wall over for years!

With me George was my Great Great Grandfather so it's a bit more direct for me!

Flippin' Ancestors.....