Looking for a death

[Lincslass]

One of my brick walls.

Margaret Muckells born 15th March 1851. Married George Gorringe 20th April 1870. Had my G G grandad George Edward 19th May 1870. Then came Sarah 1872 and Thomas 1873. Then a big gap and she had James Rowden Gorringe in 1883. I have the family together in 1881, transcribed as Godringe. I personally don't think James is Georges' son as Her sister Charlotte married a Thomas Rowden. 

In 1891 Margaret is in Bishopwearmouth Workhouse with son James R. Her husband remarried 1890 to Sarah Ann Douglas. So I can find no death or remarriage for Margaret. By 1901 James R is with my G G grandad in Grimsby. But no sign of Margaret. Not in Scotland either. The death in Sept Q 1897 is not her as her husband was Thomas and the death was registered by her father J Naisbett.

I keep going back to these brick walls. Any one help me please?

Jo

[stanmapstone]

If Margaret is still alive in 1891 then George could only marry Sarah Ann in 1890 if he was divorced or committed bigamy. If he had divorced Margaret, an expensive business but not unknown amongst ordinary working people, then Margaret could have remarried or died many years afterwards.
Stan

[Lincslass]

 

I realised that and have him down as a bigamist as he was an ag lab. He died in 1916 and had at least 5 children to his second wife who were of a similiar age to his grandchildren. 

  

There is a marriage in 1913 to a Collinge which could be correct. Worth £7 I suppose.

Update after checking census, He was mariner not an Ag Lab

 


Jo

[sillgen]

You say there is a big gap in the children.  Is it possible there were some who died?    Have you looked for baptism records?   Burials in the local church might help too.    If she was in the workhouse then the records there might be helpful.  Have you looked at them?   Getting James Rowden's birth certificate would solve that question - or finding his baptism.   It is always possible that Charlotte married a distant cousin and Rowden name appears further back in the ancestry.
A few more avenues to follow perhaps?  Does sound like bigamy though!!
Andrea

[Lincslass]

I have James Rowden Gorringe birth cert. I decided to buy it to clear up the question but the fathers name is the same as my G G Grandfathers. Yes I had considered that they may be other children who had died. I can only see a couple of possibles between 1875 and 1881. I must admit that I have not gone down the Rowden avenue but the families of Gorringe and Rowden live close by in earlier censuses and there were several brothers to Thomas who married Margarets sister Charlotte.

Many thanks for your time

Jo

[Half Pint]

I hope Margaret Muckell didn't marry a Mickell...

Sorry, but it was the first thought that popped into my head when I read her name.

Half Pint

[Michael Dixon]

Jo,

George Gorringe and his parents Edward and Mary Ann were from Kent. Although Thomas Rowden was Sunderland-born, the Surname Profiler web site shows the Rowden surname roots to be in Kent.

( But this is very longshot ! )

The birth of a Charlotte Ann Gorrings was reg with Sunderland DRO in Dec Qtr 0f 1876. Death registered Mar Qtr 1878, for a 1 yr old Charlotte Ann Gorringe aged 1 yr. Margaret Jane's mother was Charlotte !

 George Gorringe marries Sara Ann Douglass in 1890. I wonder if he married her in same site ( RO or church) where he married Margaret Jane !.

As you say, on C1891,  Margaret and son James Rowden Gorringe are in the Workhouse.

Her sons Thomas and George are lodgers in Hind St.
Dastardly George is with wife Sarah in Hylton St. Her father Andrew is in Johnson. These three addresses are very close.

And guess where the workhouse was ?  Just off Hylton Street !

I wonder what happened to Margaret and why could she not get supported by the extended family.

When her brother Thomas lost his wife, Jane, aged 32 yrs, his sister-in-law, Elizabeth Stewart , nee Morris, took in his dtr Charlotte, and he and his other dtr Barbara lodged with his sister Charlotte and his brother-in-law Thomas Rowden.


And a strange coincidence.. Thomas Gorringe had married
Margaret Jane Naisbett in 1873, and she was similar age to Margaret Jane Muckle/Gorringe, and both born in Sunderland.

Like you and others, I can see Marg Jane nee Muckle on C1901 or in death registrations, or under maiden name or marriages.

Back to the Workhouse angle. On C1981, she is correctly recorded as a married woman. Now I am not absolutely sure about this, but I think Union Workhouses would not support someone without trying to limit the cost, e.g. returning folk to their own parish, or making a claim agaist the "home" parish. But MJ was in her home parish. But they knew she had a husband. I wonder if they knew he was just around the corner, and wonder if they tackled him for cash ?

Tynemouth was my home workhouse,( lovely Full English breakfast every morning, and a drop of brandy before bed ) Their records are available, not just the 10-yrly census listings , but for admissions and departures and classification under which folk entered the w/h. and etc.   But where to see Sunderland's records ??
County Record Office in Durham City... Sunderland library..??.

I notice George fathered two Georges and two Sarahs !

Best of luck.

Michael Dixon ( saw some Gallaghers in w/h, on previous page tp Margaret Jane )


Michael Dixon

[stanmapstone]

For Sunderland Workhouse Records see Tyne & Wear Archives guide
http://www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk/pdf/userguide22.pdf

Stan

[Lincslass]

Michael

Many thanks for your response. I had considered that Charlotte may be theirs. It is quite feasible as Georges paternal Grandmother was Sarah, their first daughter.

I did not know that they were all living so close together. I wonder if they knew of their fathers new marriage but kept it from their mother. I strongly suspect that she was disowned following the birth of James R. It is my only answer as they were all living so close. Despite my previous comment that he was an Ag Lab, he was in fact a mariner/sailor. So she could have said he was at sea.

I live in Aylesbury and visit the records office regularly and have seen that there are little booklets of workhouse entrants, leavers births and deaths and have thought, I wish I lived in Durham. I will have to go down that avenue.

There is an irony in my maternal branch. I was aware that Georges father Dastadly George was born in Kent and moved to Sunderland in the 1860s. George G born 1895 in Sunderland moved to Grimsby sometime with mother Jane Ann nee Robertson and sister Margaret b 1897 and had another sibling Thomas born 1900 in Grimsby followed by two more siblings in 1902 and 1907. (Can't find them on the 1901 census and don't know why they aren't with their daddy George b 1870 son of dastardly George, who is with his brother James R)

Anyway, the irony is that George born 1895, my grandfather, married my grandmother, born 1901 in 1921 in Grimsby. My grandmothers grandfather, also a mariner, though born in Lincolnshire moved up to Sunderland in the 1850's married there, had three children there but moved back to  Grimsby between 1877 when my G grandfather Thomas Ayscough was born in Sunderland and the 1881 census.

Back to MJ. I will have to investigate the link kindly given by Stanmap ans see if I can come up with anything.

Thanks you all for your time.

Jo