Author Topic: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven  (Read 16430 times)

Offline Ragna

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 23 January 07 19:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi there

Yes I found that George and wondered whether it was him but I dont think so because he was living in Surrey Lane, Battersea so if he had been put into prison it would have been locally. Also he used the name Sydney as on his medical admission it stated after the names (1) (2) against names and there was a (1) against Sydney.

That was a brilliant point about his religion and prompted me to remember that on Medical admission for him it says C of E so perhaps the Jewish Rumour is unlikely. Although would he have lied or changed religion.?

I have checked Scotland paying for a session on their website without any success for either him or his father.  Have wondered about Ireland and think that I will do what you have suggested and place some enquiries on the Ireland and Scotland Boards.

Thank you again for all your help, I have been telling all my family today about this site and just how amazing it is....I only stumbled it by chance when i was googling something.

Ragna  ;D
McLaven - Camberwell
Dyer - St Pancras
Terrey - London
Stanton - Oxon
Wilkins - Weeley
Avis - London
Rasmussen/Soeter - Norway
Brent - Holsworthy Devon
Hawes - Bedfordshire
Tysoe - Bedfordshire

Offline Josephine

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 23 January 07 19:59 GMT (UK) »
You're most welcome, Ragna!   ;)

In my experience, it's tough when people were hiding something; they usually covered their tracks fairly well.  Also, if people didn't have much money, that can make it less likely that we'll find documentation on them.

Maybe the local church would have a record of his burial.  It all depends on what information the priest or minister recorded and what the informant knew.  It's always worth a try, however, because you never know what you might find.

My great-grandfather's death record (in Canada) is useless.  The information is either missing or incorrect (his mother's name is wrong).  We know it's the same guy because we have his death notice and burial card.  So the informant on the death record probably wasn't his wife.

It's possible that your great-grandfather might have changed his religion and his name and it's something to keep in mind.  The key, at this point, would be in finding out where he was born because then you could search the census and birth records with a bit more certainty.

Much to my surprise, I found a Jewish ancestor (Barnett Barnett) who was born around 1796.  His daughter (my ancestor) married in the Anglican church and her children were baptized in the Anglican church.  Another daughter married a Jewish man and their children were raised Jewish.  Most of Barnett Barnett's children married in the Anglican church.  I recently learned that, despite being married in the Anglican church and baptizing his children in the Anglican church, his son, Benjamin, must have stayed Jewish because he is buried in the synagogue cemetery.  So, who knows?

My mother's grandmother had to have known that her grandfather and some aunts, uncles and cousins were Jewish, but as far as I know, she never told her children about it.  My mother and her siblings didn't know.

Hmmmm.  You could see if the church where your great-grandparents were married has a baptism for him as an adult, in the year or so prior to their marriage.

I looked for a baptism for my 3rd-great-grandmother (whose father was Jewish but whose mother seems to have been Anglican) but couldn't find one.  However, one of her sisters was baptized in the Anglican church when she was about 53 years old.  That was a chance find; I was just trolling through the records.

I wonder about the way McLaven might have been pronounced and the various spellings that might have created?  For example, I think Coughlin is pronounced "Cocklin" or "Coglin".  Would Soundex pick up on Coughlin = Cocklin?

Someone recently told me that his ancestor changed the beginning of his name from Mac to Mc when he came to Canada but the reasoning seemed funny to me (I can't remember what it was).

I wish it were possible to search on surnames on Ancestry with a wildcard at the beginning of the name (for example, *ven).

Regards,
Josephine
England: Barnett; Beaumont; Christy; George; Holland; Parker; Pope; Salisbury
Scotland: Currie; Curror; Dobson; Muir; Oliver; Pryde; Turnbull; Wilson
Ireland: Carson; Colbert; Coy; Craig; McGlinchey; Riley; Rooney; Trotter; Waters/Watters

Offline Ragna

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 23 January 07 20:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi again

I like you have found mistakes too and especially with spellings. But like you say with the Burial in Canada you know it is him. What a Great name Barnett Barnett !!! I wasnt aware of the anti semitisum in the 1800s until i was reading up one day. Apparently (correct me anyone here if im wrong cos i read this a long time ago) in Whitechapel when Jack the Ripper was murdering it was rumoured to be a Jew (because they suspected he was a surgeon) and there were riots. If this is the case it would be around the same time that my Sydney could have changed his name.

Latest I forgot to add later (was inbetween babies/dinner/and arguing teenagers) that Salisbury Library rang me today and gave me a couple of numbers to call tomorrow that will possibly give me where he was buried. Will keep you posted

Excellent idea about where he was married. I never really thought about that he may have came from the same place. Going to pursue that further.


Ragna ;D


McLaven - Camberwell
Dyer - St Pancras
Terrey - London
Stanton - Oxon
Wilkins - Weeley
Avis - London
Rasmussen/Soeter - Norway
Brent - Holsworthy Devon
Hawes - Bedfordshire
Tysoe - Bedfordshire


Offline Rian

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 23 January 07 22:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ragna
Do you have Fanny on any census before her marriage? I was wondering if he lived nearby and that is how they met. If you have her address in 1891 it might be worth looking up and down her street. I can't help but think that with a name like this, and you not finding him in Scotland, it could well have been mistranscribed.
I have had more examples of this in my own research than you can poke a stick at! My grandfather had BOTH his names mistranscribed (Kennett Garner to Kenneth Turner) and I found him as a lodger in my grandmother's house! Poor man even had the registrar record him as Kelleth at his birth.
If you have an address, I could look both ways along the street for you.
Worth a shot anyway.
Cheers, Rian.
Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Researching:
Anderson, Atton, Bagley, Banks, Barlow, Bartin, Braid, Carveth, Cleary, Cooper, Fennessy, Frank, Frisby, Garner, Hathaway, Hollis, Hopkins, Irvine, Jones, Karrasch, Kennett, Kirkpatrick, Kirkness, Kopittke, Leslie, Logie, McGinty, Marriott, Meredith, Minshull, Munro, Nind, Pearce, Pulley, Reid, Rendall, Scollay, Shearer, Shorter, Spence, Stephenson, Tate, Warren.
UK, Orkney, Ireland, Prussia and Australia.

Offline Ragna

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 23 January 07 23:08 GMT (UK) »
Oooooh what a good idea. :o

Well.....I know that at the time of the marriage he was living at 1 Acorn Place Peckham and I have found Fanny Terrey's sister Emma (Sargeant) at the same address so perhaps he was their lodger?

Is it possible to do Census Search's on just addresses apart from the  1901 Census.

Think I will spend tomorrow searching !!! (inbetween everything else)

Thank you
Ragna ;D

McLaven - Camberwell
Dyer - St Pancras
Terrey - London
Stanton - Oxon
Wilkins - Weeley
Avis - London
Rasmussen/Soeter - Norway
Brent - Holsworthy Devon
Hawes - Bedfordshire
Tysoe - Bedfordshire

Offline carol8353

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 24 January 07 17:43 GMT (UK) »
1 Acorn Place Peckham is on RG13/507 folio 51  page 28 in 1901

The family there is,

Henry and Emma Sargeant and their kids George 24, Fred 15,Elliott 11 and Florence 8.

The 1881 is easily searchable by address,but for 1891 you'd need someone with a CD rom of the area I believe.

Regards

Carol
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline carol8353

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 24 January 07 17:57 GMT (UK) »
Ragna,

I have just found the Sargeant family in 1891........at 1a Acorn Place Peckham.

RG 12/477 folio 18 page 30.

Sadly no lodgers though- they had enough kids to fill the house  ;)

Sydney doesn't appear to be a near neighbour either.

Back to the drawing board for a rethink on this.

It's a difficult one ain't it?

My immediate reaction was.............that it's an Irish name,but also could have been Scottish I suppose.

Carol

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ragna

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 24 January 07 18:10 GMT (UK) »
Thank you both so much, ;D

That has answered one question at least, he wasnt there !!!!! They were his Sister in law and brother in law and children though and its wonderful to think that my Aunty who lives in Canada who I speak to regulary (shes 81 now) remembers her Aunt Emm very clearly and Florence who she wasnt very keen on.

I did today find out where Sydney was buried, it was in Devizes Cemetery in Salisbury and they have even given me a Reference although it will be unmarked as he was a pauper. (two others were put there with him at a later date) They said that if I wish to visit they will mark it out for me (how nice)

Yes I have wondered about the Irish ....as i cant find him either Scotland or England perhaps (Edward Father) perhaps its worth trying Ireland although i know its difficult with so many records missing.


Ragna ;D
McLaven - Camberwell
Dyer - St Pancras
Terrey - London
Stanton - Oxon
Wilkins - Weeley
Avis - London
Rasmussen/Soeter - Norway
Brent - Holsworthy Devon
Hawes - Bedfordshire
Tysoe - Bedfordshire

Offline Rian

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Re: Mystery of Great Grandfather Mc Laven
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 24 January 07 20:56 GMT (UK) »
Yes I had a look up and down the road at Acorn Place and he wasn't there. (You can search if you have a sub to 'Find my past'). I wonder what he was doing in Salisbury?
Has anyone got access to the 1901 to see if he was there then?
Cheers, Rian.

PS We still haven't found where Fanny herself ws living before she married we might still find him there.
Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Researching:
Anderson, Atton, Bagley, Banks, Barlow, Bartin, Braid, Carveth, Cleary, Cooper, Fennessy, Frank, Frisby, Garner, Hathaway, Hollis, Hopkins, Irvine, Jones, Karrasch, Kennett, Kirkpatrick, Kirkness, Kopittke, Leslie, Logie, McGinty, Marriott, Meredith, Minshull, Munro, Nind, Pearce, Pulley, Reid, Rendall, Scollay, Shearer, Shorter, Spence, Stephenson, Tate, Warren.
UK, Orkney, Ireland, Prussia and Australia.