Author Topic: Italian marries Irish lady in England?  (Read 7988 times)

Offline mich b

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Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« on: Monday 19 February 07 17:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi everyone,
I've just joined Roots chat (this is my first message) and I'm fairly new to researching my ancestory and I have limited financial resources.
What I have so far discovered is that my g-g-g-grandfather, Giovanni BINI, was born in Lucca in Italy in 1804, it seems he married an Irish lady called Sophia (b.Dublin 1810). I have not found a marriage certificate (or record) so far.
I have found that Giovanni's name has been misspelt on several Census' and on a trade directory i.e.
BINI spelt as BENNEY, BENEY and BINEY
giovanni spelt as JOHN.
A very helpful lady from Sheffield (local studies) suggested that they could have met in Liverpool, got married in Manchester (had first baby in Mancs) then moved around with his work judging by where subsequent childrens births were registered. He was a plaster figure maker - eventually with his own shop in Sheffield.
They were Catholic, does anyone know of ways to find out where their marriage might be recorded so I can discover Sophia's maiden name and possibly begin a search of my Irish roots. Also if anyone know's of any BINI's (its not a common name) or if there's a way to search records for the Italian connection, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks Michelle   
 
BINI:Lucca,Italy/Sheffield/Shireoaks/Nott'm
JOHNSON:Whetstone,Leics
PINDER:Sheffield
KENNY:IRL,Dublin,ENG,Lancs,S.KENNY m BINI 
BINGHAM:Sheffield/Shireoaks
WATSON:Foxton,Leics
WORMLEIGHTON:Enderby,Leics
MARSH:Sheffield
KEMBLE:Godalming/Leicester
GLEDHILL:Bolton,Lancs/Worsop,Notts
PEBERDY:Saddington/Foxton/Gumley, Leics
HORTON:Saddington/Foxton,Leics
DANN:Foxton/Cosby/Leics
HARRITY:Sheffield
COLDERLEY:Bolton,Lancs
JONES:ChurchGresley/Smisby,Derby's/Worksop,Notts
JEACOCK: LEI/Blaby

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Offline Necromancer

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Re: Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 19 February 07 17:57 GMT (UK) »
Welcome Michelle !

So when was the first child born in Manchester ?

If post-1837 (start of Civil Regn), you may get a Birth Index entry and thus mum's maiden name from the Cert .... which would have to be purchased for 7.00

Altho of course other children would be OK ....
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Offline mich b

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Re: Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 19 February 07 18:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Newfy

Thanks for that.

According to Census info. Caroline BINI was born in Lancashire (Manchester apparently) in 1838. I've searched FreeBMD and the free part of Ancestory.com, but I've so far drawn a blank with regards to certificates. According to the nice "Local Studies lady" she said none of Giovanni and Sophia's children were registered, though I've since found one "Angelo George BENEY b.Jun 1843" in Wolverhampton. I intend to apply for a birth certificate, but thought that in that year the mother's maiden name wouldn't be listed.
The lady told me that the Catholic church might have a baptism record. Do you think it'd be a case of wading through their records (i.e. all the R.C churches and chapels in Manchester) it seems a bit daunting?

Thanks again Michelle 
BINI:Lucca,Italy/Sheffield/Shireoaks/Nott'm
JOHNSON:Whetstone,Leics
PINDER:Sheffield
KENNY:IRL,Dublin,ENG,Lancs,S.KENNY m BINI 
BINGHAM:Sheffield/Shireoaks
WATSON:Foxton,Leics
WORMLEIGHTON:Enderby,Leics
MARSH:Sheffield
KEMBLE:Godalming/Leicester
GLEDHILL:Bolton,Lancs/Worsop,Notts
PEBERDY:Saddington/Foxton/Gumley, Leics
HORTON:Saddington/Foxton,Leics
DANN:Foxton/Cosby/Leics
HARRITY:Sheffield
COLDERLEY:Bolton,Lancs
JONES:ChurchGresley/Smisby,Derby's/Worksop,Notts
JEACOCK: LEI/Blaby

Offline Necromancer

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Re: Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 19 February 07 18:17 GMT (UK) »
You should get a mothers maiden name - it was a requirement ..... very unlucky if not, altho you might then have handwriting problems, but theres some real experts on here !

Not familiar with the RC side of things - but yes, sounds daunting .... altho might be worth posting a request for RC Records in the Lancs board ?
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Offline mich b

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Re: Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 19 February 07 19:06 GMT (UK) »
I think it was a requirement to register births post 1837, but it seems my ancestors didn't register them all. I'll definitely apply for Angelo's birth cert. I've applied for Sophia's Death cert., but I'm still waiting for it to come. I was hoping her maiden name would be on that, she died in 1869, but again I'm not covinced it will.

Is it normal each time you reply to me that I get an email and I have to open it each time before I can receive any more replies? I've not been on a chat room/site before so I may be doing something wrong?

Cheers Michelle 
BINI:Lucca,Italy/Sheffield/Shireoaks/Nott'm
JOHNSON:Whetstone,Leics
PINDER:Sheffield
KENNY:IRL,Dublin,ENG,Lancs,S.KENNY m BINI 
BINGHAM:Sheffield/Shireoaks
WATSON:Foxton,Leics
WORMLEIGHTON:Enderby,Leics
MARSH:Sheffield
KEMBLE:Godalming/Leicester
GLEDHILL:Bolton,Lancs/Worsop,Notts
PEBERDY:Saddington/Foxton/Gumley, Leics
HORTON:Saddington/Foxton,Leics
DANN:Foxton/Cosby/Leics
HARRITY:Sheffield
COLDERLEY:Bolton,Lancs
JONES:ChurchGresley/Smisby,Derby's/Worksop,Notts
JEACOCK: LEI/Blaby

Offline Necromancer

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Re: Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 19 February 07 19:18 GMT (UK) »
You're getting an email cos the default Profile asks for it.

No, you dont have to wait - just click on 'Show new Replies to your posts' (top right, under 'WELCOME BACK')

You might want to browse thru and modify your Profile ....  - on the central Menu Bar next to SEARCH ROOTSCHAT

Hope all goes well !
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 19 February 07 19:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi Michelle,

Welcome to RootsChat  :) :)

there are some topics here, telling you how to disable notifications:

Topic: RootsChat Topics: How to use RootsChat / FAQs
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,207046.0.html

Enjoy RootsChat  :)
Bob
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Offline colinjohn

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Re: Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 19 February 07 19:45 GMT (UK) »
Hello Michelle

All marriages before July 1837 when civil registration started (with the exception of Quakers & Jews) had to be in a CoE church, whatever the religion of the couple although they might well have married in a Roman Catholic church too. So if your pair married before that date in England & Wales then you need to follow exactly the same methods as everyone else.

Baptism was a different matter so that might well have taken place in an RC church or chapel. I'm not familiar with Catholic Church in Lancashire so all I can do is suggest that you track down a copy of Michael Gandy's booklet Catholic Missions and Registers, 1700-1880, volume 5, NW England. He lists all known church registers, the years they cover, their present location (some are still with the Parish Priest) and the location of any transcriptions, where they exist.

Other possible sources of assistance include the Catholic Family History Society http://www.catholic-history.org.uk/cfhs/ and the Anglo-Italian Family History Society http://www.anglo-italianfhs.org.uk/

Two books that might be of interest are Manchester's Little Italy, by Anthony Rae and Little Italy, A history of Liverpool's Italian Community, by Terry Cooke. Both can be bought from the Anglo-Italian FHS through the Parish Chest web site: http://www.parishchest.com/en-gb/dept_371.html

Good luck

Colin
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Offline mich b

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Re: Italian marries Irish lady in England?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 19 February 07 20:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi Colin,

Thanks very much for that information I'll certainly be looking into the links and suggesting that my dad buys Michael Gandy's book (he's got more money than me LOL).

I've got photo's of Giovanni's great-grandson, my great-grandfather. I can't find anything about where/when he died, but I do have a copy of his birth cert.

He fought in the Boer War and was injured in France in WW1. I've attempted to search Military records on line, but almost every site seems to request payment. I understand that people have spent  a massive amount of time transcribing the records, but on a low income its prohibitive to join them all. I can't find anything for his marriage or his death on the free sites even though I have a lot of personal info about him. Any suggestions on this topic please?

Thanks

Michelle   
BINI:Lucca,Italy/Sheffield/Shireoaks/Nott'm
JOHNSON:Whetstone,Leics
PINDER:Sheffield
KENNY:IRL,Dublin,ENG,Lancs,S.KENNY m BINI 
BINGHAM:Sheffield/Shireoaks
WATSON:Foxton,Leics
WORMLEIGHTON:Enderby,Leics
MARSH:Sheffield
KEMBLE:Godalming/Leicester
GLEDHILL:Bolton,Lancs/Worsop,Notts
PEBERDY:Saddington/Foxton/Gumley, Leics
HORTON:Saddington/Foxton,Leics
DANN:Foxton/Cosby/Leics
HARRITY:Sheffield
COLDERLEY:Bolton,Lancs
JONES:ChurchGresley/Smisby,Derby's/Worksop,Notts
JEACOCK: LEI/Blaby