Author Topic: Bachellier  (Read 13454 times)

Offline bellbo99

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 05 July 16 21:27 BST (UK) »
Hi All,
Is anyone still interested in the Bachelliers? Trying to trace a family tree for a friend I have a hand written letter by Sarah Elizabeth Haley outlining her family. Sarah also gives her 2xgreat grandfather as Samuel,and mentions the cocoa plant in Normandy.
Many thanks
Lou

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 05 July 16 22:55 BST (UK) »
Hi Lou

Welcome to Rootschat  ;D

This is an old topic.

Depending on profile settings, people may or may not receive email notifications that you have posted here.

If they do get a notification and are still interested, I'm sure they will come back again.

Dawn

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline Caliandris

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #38 on: Monday 23 November 20 10:48 GMT (UK) »
I know this is a long shot, and rather than necroposting after four years I ought to start a new thread, but I am hoping to catch the attention of the people who posted before.  The records for the Charenton temple, which were referred to in this thread were destroyed in a fire in 1871.  There are trwo sources of information deriving from those records.  For names beginning A-F there are some typed records here http://lecegd94.hautetfort.com/saint-maurice-temple-de-charenton/ which were derived from the originals before destruction.

That site also refers to notes made by the Haag brothers from the originals, which are apparently available at the Val de Marne archives.  The link they provide is dead and I have been unable to find the records on a simple search and have therefore contacted the archives on their contact form. Their website is here: http://archives.valdemarne.fr/r/6/archives-mode-d-emploi/

The strange thing is that although someone referred to 30 marriages for Bachelier in the Charenton records, I can't find *any* in the notes for the registers from A-F.  I was wondering if they might be under Le Bachelier or maybe those records are incomplete in themselves?  I am researching Nicholas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol, for a friend descended from them.

Spivey, Hughes, Jones Carmarthen 19th c
Spivey, Armitage in Almondbury, Yorkshire 18th c
Dickins Staffordshire and Birmingham 18th and 19th c
Aldridge, Robey, Jearrad in London 18th and 19th
Pitt and Westlake Devon 17th and 18th c
Earwaker London and Hampshire 18th and 19th
Fitzpatrick in The Rower, Kilkenny, Ireland
Clarke, Hewitt, Starkey, Green in Cheshire 19th and 20th


Offline richarde1979

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #39 on: Monday 23 November 20 13:59 GMT (UK) »
Hello Caliandris. I havn't read back through the thread, but it may have been me who mentioned the 30 marriage records at Charenton. I have had a look through my Bachelier file and can't find what that refers to, but there is a list of surnames appearing in the contracts of marriage in Meaux between 1536-1708, which lists 28 Bacheliers. Maybe it was a confusion for that. I do have a vague memory of another site though, in France, specifically relating to Charenton, which did list Bacheliers, though the records wern't online. It seems weird the B File on the link begins with surnames at BAR, perhaps it is missing an earleir page with Bacheliers?
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline Caliandris

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 22:55 GMT (UK) »
hi there Richarde,
Thank you for replying so quickly on such an old thread.  I think is *was* you who mentioned that Nicholas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol came from Charenton, and you also said that your ancestor Judith was unlikely to be their child as she was baptized at Meaux, whereas they were from Villeparisis.  That does seem to be true according to the registers. So that seems a bit odd if the Bacheliers in general came from Meaux?  The records from the Charenton Temple were destroyed and the notes may be incomplete, but I am wondering if you can possibly find the reason why you originally decided that Judith and the other Bachelliers were not together, and why you concluded they were from Charenton, as I can't find anything that confirms this at the moment, except for their births being at Villeparisis and not Meaux.  Thank you!
Spivey, Hughes, Jones Carmarthen 19th c
Spivey, Armitage in Almondbury, Yorkshire 18th c
Dickins Staffordshire and Birmingham 18th and 19th c
Aldridge, Robey, Jearrad in London 18th and 19th
Pitt and Westlake Devon 17th and 18th c
Earwaker London and Hampshire 18th and 19th
Fitzpatrick in The Rower, Kilkenny, Ireland
Clarke, Hewitt, Starkey, Green in Cheshire 19th and 20th

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #41 on: Monday 30 November 20 10:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi it's been a while since I did this research so not very fresh in my mind. This is the notes from my own research file. If this has all been covered already in the thread, I apologise for the repetition, but perhaps there will be something useful for you there:

Judith is claimed on several online trees as a daughter to Nicolas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol. Nicholas's son Paul married an Esther Saumon, and members of the Saumon family act as Godparents for Judiths’ children. Judith also named a son Nicolas, so a close relationship between her and his family likely existed.

However, unlike the other children of Nicolas, no evidence exists of Judith in London prior to her marriage in 1704. Nicolas and his family consistently give their place of origin as Villeparisis or Paris. On the only known occasion Judith provides her own place of origin (Son Timothy’s baptism 1729) she provides Meaux en Brie.

Nicolas fled direct from France to England after the destruction of the Charenton Temple in late 1685. In the first year in England 1686, his family appear in the charity records of the Threadneedle Street Church several times. On one instance Nicolas claims for himself, wife and three children. The children are not named, but if the numbers are accurate, this alone seems to rule out Judith as a daughter, as three children, born prior to 1686, are accounted for in later records:

1.   Nicolas Bachelier Jr (born France circa 1674) married Madelaine Deshayes London 1697
2.   Marie Magdeliane Bachelier (born France circa 1679) married Abraham Pottier London 1701 rem Paul Boucher London 1721
3.   Paul Bachelier (born France circa 1680) married Esther Saumon London 1706, remarried to Marie Gaucheron London 1725


Nicolas, his wife, and all three of his children appear as godparents at Threadneedle Street Church London, on ten occasions between 1687-1701. They also appear at the smaller St Jeans Chapel in Spitalfields in 1697 when Nicolas stands as a godparent there. It would seem strange Judith not similarly appearing in these records prior to 1704 if she were indeed part of that immediate family.

The couple I instead favour as her parents, Jean and Judith Bachelier, arrived in London in the summer of 1701, joining Threadneedle Street church on 31st August that year. They had a testimonial of faith from the Huguenot congregation at the Waals Kirk Haarlem.

A month later Marie Madelaine Bachelier, Nicolas's daughter, got married at Threadneedle Street. Six days earlier she publicly announced her intention to marry at La Patente Huguenot Chapel, Spitalfields:

1701. 25 Sep POTTIER & BACHELLIER Abraham Pottier, weaver, residing in Ouyle (Wheeler) Street, Stepney, born of Nanteuil, Meaux en Brie, Son of Abraham Potier and the deceased Magdelaine Cadet, - and Marie Madelaine Bachelier, born of Paris, and daughter of Nicolas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol; together announce their intention to be married publically in the Church of Stepney, in unity, and without opposition.
Statement witnessed and signed by: J. Bachelier, N. Bachelier, Paul Bachelier, Marie Rossignol, Pierre Nepueu, Jacob Pottier, Jean Robert, Louis Robert. Minister: Balguerie


This is the first time the Bacheliers are on record using this chapel, and the first time a 'J. Bachelier' appears on any London records. Significantly, this is the same chapel Judith Bachelier uses to baptise her children to Antoine Deverdun 1705-1729.

If Judith were a daughter to Jean and Judith, and Nicolas and Marie instead extended relations, perhaps Uncle/Aunt, this would explain why Judith Bachelier/Deverdun calls a child Nicolas, and why Marie Bachelier and Marie Saumon, Esther Saumon/Bachelier's sister, appear as godparents to her and Antoine's children at La Patente.

When Jean and Judith Bachelier appear on the 1709 Royal Bounty accounts the following info is giving for them:

Jean Bachelier, 52, of Meaux en Brie, Weaver, and Judith his wife, 65, residing at Phoenix Street, Spitalfields were paid 15 shillings.

This would make them 26 and 39 respectively at the approximate time Judith was born in France, circa 1683, and the place of origin matches that Judith gives, unlike Nicolas and Marie Bachelier. In addition to this Judith Bachelier's daughter Elizabeth Deverdun/Morgue later also records Phoenix Street, Spitalfields, as her address, in 1763.

Judith’s marriage to Antoine Deverdun, also fits this scenario better, as he too came to London, from Haarlem or Amsterdam, 1701-3, as did most of the other individuals and families who act as godparents to the couple’s children at La Patente.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London