Author Topic: Bachellier  (Read 13461 times)

Offline MabelLucy

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 23 February 11 07:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Val

I have Paul's parents as Nicholas Bachelier 1645 born Villeparisis, Eure et Loir, France. His mother was Marie Rossignol 1650 born also in Villeparisis, Eure et Loir, France.  I don't have parents listed for Esther Saumon yet. My Bacheliers are spelt with one L.

I hope this is of help

MabelLucy
Jackson, Richardson, Feecham, Bachelier, Deverdun, Cranmer, Hickton, De Courcy Hickton, Dale, Brown, Cockson Brown, Thomas, James, Gault - England, France.

McAtasney, McIlvaney, Cook, McSloy, Baker, Lamont, Murray - Scotland, Ireland.

Biggs, McAtasney, Sheehan, Fleming - Falkland Islands, Ireland, England

Offline VALEMBURY

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 23 February 11 17:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lucy,
That's strange as I definitely have Paul's parents as Paul Bachellier from Paris and Esther Saumon from London.  The son Paul married Marie Madelaine Finet on 29/5/1742 and my line is from their daughter Elizabeth who married Gilbert Goullee. 
However, there is another Paul Bachellier b. 1709 who married a Marianne Gaucheron, so perhaps that is your Paul who had a father Nicholas and my Paul's father was his brother also called Paul.
I haven't looked at what I call my French Connection for a few years so am a bit rusty but if you come across Gilbert Goullee on your travels, please let me know.  I still can't find his parents.
Good luck
Val
Embury ( London, Bibury) Hamlin (Bibury), Goullee (North London), Rolph (London, Walthamstow), Wheeler (London)

Offline MabelLucy

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 23 February 11 19:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi Val

You said in your previous post that you couldn't get any further back from Paul and Esther. Paul (who was married to Esther) had a father called Nicholas Bachellier and his wife was Marie Rossignol. I don't have Esther's parents recorded but may have them in my papers somewhere. As we know Paul also had a son called Paul, which is the one you are talking about. I also have the other Paul (married to Marianne Gaucheron) on my tree.

I was just trying to help by getting you one generation further back with Nicholas and Marie. I hope this is a bit clearer this time.

MabelLucy
Jackson, Richardson, Feecham, Bachelier, Deverdun, Cranmer, Hickton, De Courcy Hickton, Dale, Brown, Cockson Brown, Thomas, James, Gault - England, France.

McAtasney, McIlvaney, Cook, McSloy, Baker, Lamont, Murray - Scotland, Ireland.

Biggs, McAtasney, Sheehan, Fleming - Falkland Islands, Ireland, England


Offline richarde1979

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 23 February 11 20:43 GMT (UK) »
Hello Val and Mabel Lucy,

Esther was born in Canterbury,  on 8 April 1682      and was christened at the Walloon or Strangers Church there 16 April 1682. Her parents were Antoine Saumon and Marie Godran.

Nicholas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol were from Villeparisis, just outside Paris. They used the Huguenot temple at Charenton, and fled to London not long after it was demolished by Royal Decree in Nov 1685.

I am decended from Judith Bachelier who married Antoine Deverdun 1704 in Stepney. She is sometimes put down as a child to Nicolas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol, and certainly she named a son Nicolas, and members of the Saumon family stood as godparents to her children, so a relationship existed.

However, unlike the other children of Nicolas, absolutely no evidence exists to her being in London before 1704, and she gives her own birth place as Meaux rather than Villeparisis. A Jean Bachelier and Judith his wife came to England from Harleem Holland in Aug 1701. Antoine Deverdun also came from Haarlem Holland around the same time, and many of the couples who later stand as godparents to their children did so too. So I think perhaps more likely she was actually a daughter to this Jean and Judith, and Nicolas and Marie were extended relations, perhaps Uncle/Aunt.

Re tracing the family further back, to do so would require examining the Charenton Huguenot Temple records. As I understand it these are in private hands in France, and the one researcher who I found with access willing to do research quoted  hundreds for just a 'look up', and much more for a full research. So my own research remains frustratingly stalled at that!

Regards

Richard
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 23 February 11 21:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lucy,
That's strange as I definitely have Paul's parents as Paul Bachellier from Paris and Esther Saumon from London.  The son Paul married Marie Madelaine Finet on 29/5/1742 and my line is from their daughter Elizabeth who married Gilbert Goullee. 
However, there is another Paul Bachellier b. 1709 who married a Marianne Gaucheron, so perhaps that is your Paul who had a father Nicholas and my Paul's father was his brother also called Paul.
I haven't looked at what I call my French Connection for a few years so am a bit rusty but if you come across Gilbert Goullee on your travels, please let me know.  I still can't find his parents.
Good luck
Val

Val

Gilbert Goulle applied to the French Hospital July 1, 1837 age given as 82, and his ancestors as being refugees from Normandy. He was baptised 27 Mar 1734 at St Dunstans Stepney eldest child to Pierre/Peter Goulle and Marie his wife. Pierre was the son of Timothee Goullee who left Normandy as a refugee sometime between 1683-88, going first to Holland, before coming to England from there in 1698, joining the Threadneedle Street Church with a Testimonial from the Huguenot congregation of Amsterdam on 11 September of that year.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline VALEMBURY

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Re: Bachellier/Goullee
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 24 February 11 10:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richarde,
Thanks a lot for adding that information on Gilbert.  I did find that French Hospital report in 1837 which gave his age as 82 which fits in with the census returns making his birth year around 1754/55.  However, Peter and Mary's son Gilbert was baptised in 1734 so we have a 20 yr discrepancy.  This is why I never thought it was the same Gilbert although it's not a name that appears very frequently in any of the records.
Do you have any ideas on that?
Thanks for your time,
Val
Embury ( London, Bibury) Hamlin (Bibury), Goullee (North London), Rolph (London, Walthamstow), Wheeler (London)

Offline VALEMBURY

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #15 on: Friday 25 February 11 08:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lucy,
Thanks for clarifying that - I said I was rusty but more than I thought!
Val
Embury ( London, Bibury) Hamlin (Bibury), Goullee (North London), Rolph (London, Walthamstow), Wheeler (London)

Offline MabelLucy

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 26 February 11 02:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richarde

Thanks so much for all that fascinating information about our shared ancestors. I too am descended from your Judith who I have recorded as having been born in Meaux and who is listed as Basley with Bachelier in brackets  (I'm not sure if that was her maiden name or if that is a derivative of Bachelier). Mary Deverdun was the daughter of Thimotee and Susanne Bachelier and she married the mysterious Samuel Feecham, but you will know all that anyway. I am beginning to wonder if he (Samuel) did indeed come over from America and marry Mary as seems to be recorded on some American family trees. Other Feechams I have been in touch with seem to have concluded that the name was Fauchamp but I don't know the basis of that belief.

I have Anthoine as having been born in St Quentin, Picardy, France 1684 - death Bethnal Green 1762.

The info you gave Val and I about the Charenton Huguenot Temple records is fascinating as well. It must be very frustrating for you not to be able to get any further back, when you know where all that knowledge is stored.

One further question for you - do you have Andre Du Verdun 1655 -1731 as the father of Anthoine Deverdun and if so do you know where he came from and do you have any parents or a wife for him?
All family trees I have seen for this family seem to come to a halt at Andre, so I suspect your answer will be no - but no harm in asking.

I do really appreciate your help.

Many thanks
MabelLucy
Jackson, Richardson, Feecham, Bachelier, Deverdun, Cranmer, Hickton, De Courcy Hickton, Dale, Brown, Cockson Brown, Thomas, James, Gault - England, France.

McAtasney, McIlvaney, Cook, McSloy, Baker, Lamont, Murray - Scotland, Ireland.

Biggs, McAtasney, Sheehan, Fleming - Falkland Islands, Ireland, England

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Bachellier
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 26 February 11 02:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mabel Lucy

Judiths surname was recorded as Basly on the marriage at St Dunstans Stepney, but I tend to think this was just a mistake by the English clerk attempting to record the unfamiliar French surnames he was hearing. Very common at the time.

I have seen trees floating about with Andre as Anthoine's father, but I have never seen any evidence of that, and think it might have been wishful thinking. Andre and Anthoine certainly arrive in England around same time summer/autumn 1702. Andre was a master weaver and belonged to the London Weavers company. I'm more inclined to think he and Anthoine were brothers, they both married soon after arriving in England and stand as godparents to eachothers children, which seems more like brothers to me. Andre's death and burial in 1731 does not record an age for him, and I have not found his age given anywhere, so again I think the 1665 d.o.b for him is likely a bit of creative guess work by somebody to try and make things 'fit' their prefered scenario.

I have examined the existant records of the Huguenot Temple in St Quentin and unfortunately found no trace of the De Verduns (the records are though very incomplete and fragmentery). They were in Haarlem Holland before London, so the records of the Waals Kerk there may yet provide info on them, I have not yet had opportunity to properly examine these.

Nice to meet a new cousin on this line BTW!

Regards

Richard
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London