James Keen (e)

[rarebit]

Hi Rosie
I'm afraid that family was the wrong one ,found them married in Aberdare and her name was Jane Gowen ,in Wiltshire registry office said there are 2  Samuel s(I know his name is  right it's on   James's marriage cert) that had a son James one  was married to an Ann this James was born 1848 ,the other was called Rachel and that James was born 1845 ,I,d me more inclined to go with the 1st one ,but I seem to come up against brick walls all the time   ,maybe you can come up with something else  Marion

[RosieJ]

Hi Marion
How frustrating!
Do you have the 1881 census ref so I can have a look at that and work backwards?
Will keep looking to see if I can find them.
Rowena

[rarebit]

Hi Rowena
The only place I have access to at the moment is family search ,on the 1881 census he is in Wales ,the info you need is as follows
James Keene brn 1847 in Broughton Gifford Wiltshire wife is Sarah Keene born St Davids Pembroke ,they live in Glamorgan Bedw bach Bettws ,as you can see they travelled around ,there is quite a long way between the birth of their children ,they got married in Bedwellty ,which is the opposite end to where Margaret (their)child was born thats Swansea West Wales ,and their last child was born in South Wales ,the mind boggles!!!!hope you can help meeeee   Marion

[rarebit]

sorry forgot to add ,on one of the census's they say hes from Broughton Pembroke ,but I think it,s a mistake ,but you never know ,I did find an Ann Kean   in Pembroke on the 1881 census but she was a widow ,and the name was spelt different    Thanks for taking the time to help Marion

[rarebit]

oops again ,the 1st James born 1848 that I mentioned in an earlier message married to Ann ,is'nt the right one ,Marion

[RosieJ]

There's a Samuel Keen who married Ann (not Jane) Gowen in Dec 1845 in Bradford Upon Avon - could this be James' parents?

The only other Samuel Keen marriage in Wiltshire in the time before James is born is the Jane Cleverly one.

[rarebit]

Hi Rowen
We have checked Samuel with Ann and their son James ,James was in Wiltshire with his wife on the later census's ,so he's out ,I looked on www.familysearch.org for Samuel 's marriage ,I found one married to Eliza Bull  1844,when I went back and checked on free bmd ,I found Samuel ,Eliza and Jane Cleverly all married on the same day !!!!! so I'm really confused now ,I originally found the Samuel Keen and Jane Keen that you found then I found Samuel and Jane Cleverly on the marriage ,automatically I thought I had found the right one ,but I'll have to check Samuel with Eliza now ,but I know they did'nt have a son James around that time ,unless they did'nt register him ,I'm more confused than ever now   .Thanks Marion

[RosieJ]

Have found James on 1871, 1891 and 1901 censuses (can give you info if you don't have) but can't seem to find Samuel, other than the one I have already found - aaargh!!  

I wonder if that might be them in 1851 but she was known as Jane (?middle name) as their daughter was Ann? Broughton might sound like Briton to a Welsh enumerator when spoken with a Wilts accent!

Feel like I am going round in circles (sound familiar??!) - any thoughts?

[rarebit]

Hi Rowena
Thought I'd tell you what's been found ,we had a birth cert from Wiltshire for a James born 1845 , the mother was Rachel Keen and the father  was Samuel West ,stated on the birth cert she and James were taken in by Isabella Keen , so we thought it was more than coincidence about the mothers name ,looked into it further ,Samuel that is on the 1861 census in Bristol had a sister called Rachel  1827 ,it looks as if James was illigitimate ,can't find anything on the census about a Rachel West in Wiltshire ,the little boy in the workhouse looks as if it is the James we are looking for ,and Samuel went back to England to fetch him and bring him up as his own ,I also found the rest of Samuels siblings ,or some of them anyway I think ,they are not on any census,s that I can find ,but the ones born after 1837 are on the birth records ,these are the children of Phillip Keen and Isabella Bull married Broughton Gifford 1/6/1817
Mary 1/10/1820
James 15/6/1823
Rachel 4/2/1827   I think she is the mother of James
Samuel 18/1/1829
William 25/5/1834
Ann 29/5/1836
Septimus 8/4/1838    verified on the BMD records
Emma 15/3/1838   verified on the BMD records
Eliza    23/12/1843  verified on the BMD records
Samuels children on the 1861 England census are Ann,Phillip,Eliza ,Rachel and James ,the same names as his siblings ,what do you think ,are they the same family 
Only thing I don't understand is why I can't find anything on the census's about Phillip and Isabella ,they must have been alive on the 1841 as their last child was born in 1843 ,any ideas   
Marion