Ralph Glasgow/Elizabeth Jackson

[mclachlan]

Looking for Death Certificates for both Ralph Glasgow and Elizabeth Ann Jackson.

I have a marriage extract of this couple from Old Parochial Register in Parish of Barony.  Ralph and Elizabeth were married on 30/10/1853. They had 4 children:

Rosina, born  23/9/1855
John, born 29/11/1858
Ralph, born  21/8/1857
Isabella Jackson, born  26/7/1860

I have tried to find death certificates on ScotlandsPeople and have tried every possible name spelling.  Ralph died somewhere between 1878-1880 and his parents were Ann McLean and Ralph Glasgow who I have a marriage certificate for. 

Elizabeth died sometime between 1861 and 1864 as Ralph remarried a Mary Ruxton Watson and had another 2 girls, Eliza Beckett, born 05/08/1864 and Janet, born 23/05/1868.  I also cannot find a marriage certificate for Ralph's second marriage to Mary Watson either.

The last address while Elizabeth was still alive was 20 Dalmarnock Road, Glasgow.  She is not showing as being present on the 1861 census at this address (maybe she was out at the time!) but on the death certificate of her son John, in December 1861, she is also noted as still being alive!  I do not have any details of Elizabeth's parents but believe she was born around 1834.

Does anyone have any clues at to where else I could search for death records?  I am in Australia so my options are limited.
Any help would be much appreciated as I have been stuck on the Glasgow family for quite some time!

[RJ_Paton]

Elizabeth died sometime between 1861 and 1864 as Ralph remarried a Mary Ruxton Watson and had another 2 girls, Eliza Beckett, born 05/08/1864 and Janet, born 23/05/1868.  I also cannot find a marriage certificate for Ralph's second marriage to Mary Watson either.

Although in 1864 Ralph Glasgow has a new partner this does not mean that his previous partner/wife had died ..... have you considered the possibility that he may have left her ?

If so, you may need to widen the parameters to search for Elizabeth's death record.

[MonicaL]

I'm probably going to raise more questions here than answers

Firstly, as you have found, there doesn't seem to be a marriage for Ralph and Mary Watson. Their first child Eliza b. 1865 shows as illegitimate on her registration with both parents present....so, they may never have married. You would need to look at the other birth cert for Janet to see whether any marriage details show on that one.

I don't know how much you have on the censuses for Ralph, so I'll include some here:

1851:
Ralph Glasgow    42, Hand Loom Weaver Silk
Agnes Glasgow    45 (Agnes is a name variant of Ann)
Ralph Glasgow    15, errand boy
Alexr Glasgow    13
Margt Glasgow    11
Janet Glasgow    7

Address: 20 Old Dalmarnock Rd, Bridegton, Glasgow

1861:
Ralph Glasgow    52, Cotton Weaver
Ann Glasgow    55
Janet Glasgow    17, daugh., Power Loom Weaver Cotton
Ralph Glasgow    25, son, flesher
Rosina Glasgow    5
Ralph Glasgow    3
John Glasgow    2

Address: 20 Old Dalmarnock Rd, Bridegton, Glasgow. All showing Glasgow birth places.

This looks a possiblity for daughter Isabella Jackson Glasgow b. 1860:

Isabella Glasgow 8 Mo, niece, b. Glasgow
Isabella Handrew 18, wife, b. Paisley, Renfrewshire
William Handrew 20, Cotton Yarn Dresser, b. Glasgow

Address:  2 Muslin St, Bridegton, Glasgow

From IGI, I think the surname might actually be Hannay. There is a marriage showing in 1860 between a William Hannay and Isabella Campbell. Can't easily see the 'niece' connection there (maybe adoption?).

1871:
Ralph Glasgow    36, butcher
Mary Glasgow    35, b. Monross, Forfarshire
Ralph Glasgow    13
Janet Glasgow    2

Address: 31 East Miller St, High Church, Glasgow

Daughter Isabella b. 1860 does not seem to have fared well. By 1871 she is showing 'under detention' at the Glasgow Industrial Girls School:

Isabella Glasgow, 11, b. Glasgow
Address: 61 Rottenrow, Glasgow


As you, can't easily see a death for Elizabeth Jackson. Something looks to have happened to the family unit I would say following the birth of Isabella in 1860 and before the 1861 Census. I wouldn't necessarily assume that because Isabella doesn't show as deceased in son John's DC in late 1861, she hadn't died before this date.

Regards.

Monica 

[Kate B]

As you know the dates of birth of the children of Ralph and Mary, have you found the children’s birth certificates on Scotland's People?

The birth certificate will confirm the names of the father and mother, as well as the place and date of their marriage.

[mclachlan]

Thanks for all the help everyone!  I have the birth certificates for all of the children and also their marriage certificates to respective partners etc.  I have had a gut feeling that something not quite right has gone on in this family and perhaps I am right! 
On the birth certificates of Eliza and Janet Glasgow, Ralph Glasgow and Mary Watson are listed with those respective names and they don't appear to be married as there is no mention of this.  Mary is listed as being a housekeeper and her address is: 11 Annfield St, Glasgow.  So I am guessing that she perhaps looked after Ralphs' house a little too much!
On the 1871 census, Mary is showing as Mary Glasgow - does this mean her and Ralph eventually married?
Apparently my grandmother said that Mary Watson was a nasty woman and was cruel so perhaps she bumped Ralph's first wife off!!

Thanks for all of your suggestions, I certainly appreciate them. I will definitely try to search with a more open mind now.  I think sometimes we just need confirmation from other people that our instincts may be right and to trust them a little bit more!

[tidybooks]

In 1841 census, Dalmarnock road Glasgow, As a Hand Loom Weaver, with the 1841 rounding down he is shown as 30 but could be 32.

Famliy is Ann wife - also 30
Agnes b 1828
Robert b 1829
Ralph b 1835
Alex b 1837
Margaret b 1839

Tom

[MonicaL]

Hi McLachlan

I had a look the other day at Rosana Glasgow's 1855 BC (1855 BMDs - I can't ever resist them given the wealth of additional info they include  ) Unfortunately, Rosana's cert. was too faint to read the writing. I was hoping to get a better clue on Elizabeth Jackson.

I have today received a paper copy from SP where the writing is much easier to read. To cofirm parents' details:

Ralph Glasgow, butcher, 20, b. Bridgeton
Elizabeth Glasgow, 20, 1st born child, b. Calton

Their marriage is confirmed as per the OPR entry as 1853 Glasgow.

Regards.

Monica 

[mclachlan]

Thanks Monica,

I did download a copy of Rosina's birth certificate but like you said, it was almost impossible to read.  I still can't find a death record for Elizabeth or Ralph.  Guess I will just have to keep trying.  Thanks so much for your information - it's greatly appreciated.

Andrea

[MonicaL]

You can add Elizabeth's sister to the missing list of DC!

With her age confirmed from the 1855 BC for Rosana and a birth year of c.1835, I think this is Elizabeth staying with her sister in the 1851 Census:

Elizabeth Jackson 16, Cotton Factory Worker, sister in law, b. Glasgow
Margaret Scott    25. b. Glasgow
Samuel Scott    36, carter, b. Lanark
Elizabeth Scott 3, b. Glasgow
Samuel Scott    1, b. Glasgow

Address: 18 Kerr Street, Glasgow

And then Samuel, with no sign of Margaret (but perhaps another sister?), in the 1861 Census:

Mary Jackson    16, Wool Spinner, b. Glasgow
Adam Scott    2
Agnes Scott    4
Margret Scott    6
Elisabeth Scott  13
Samuel Scott    30, carter, b. Glasgow

Address:  47 Cumberland Lane, Tradeston, Glasgow

A couple of birth entries showing for the children of Samuel Scott and Margaret Jackson (and another 1855 BC):

1. AGNES SCOTT  Birth: 18 AUG 1855 Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
2. ADAM SCOTT Birth: 20 APR 1858 Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Both Elizabeth and Margaret seem to have disappeared around the time of 1861 Census.........no death entry for Margaret either

Regards.

Monica