Grierson in Ruthwell

[AH]

Hello
I wonder whether anyone could help me get out of a knot I've tied myself into? I am trying to trace  the family of Samuel Grierson a farmer in Ruthwell. I have been on the Scottish Government site and have Samules death certificate and he died in 1855 age about 56. His parents as far as I can make out on the death certificate are Joseph Grierson farmer and Isabella Grierson. I then searched for Joseph Grierson and found only one
Joseph Benjamin Grierson son of David Grierson and Agnes Dickson bap. 18/8/1773. I can find no other children and no marriage date.
On an off chance I did a google search and found what seemed to be the same family tree. The only odd thing was they gave the parents of Joseph as Samuel Grierson and Janet Dickson. The odd thing is that these names dont seem to come up on the scotland goverment site? So I thought OK, perhaps the google family tree was wrong. But then I was looking at the Dumfries notice board on sites worth a look at and noticed one that had church graveyards in. I had a little look and there were photographs of the headstones from the Grierson family tree. One slight drawback.....the critical image was difficult to read from the photograph BUT with the eye of faith it did look like a Samuel and ?? Dickson. So now I wonder whether the family tree on the internet was from someone who could actually see the graves but it still doesnt explain why the government site doesnt have the records (or at least why I cant find them). Any thoughts?
Is there anyone out there who lives near Ruthwell church graveyard? Could anyone else follow the churches link
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~dfsgal/
and see if they can read the Ruthwell gravestones (they're on page 4)
Any help gratefully received

[MonicaL]

Hi AH

Well, you have an interesting one here  Your eye of faith is working well, the first stone certainly refers to a Samuel Grierson married I think to a Catherine Dickson. Isabella, in the next paragraph appear to be the spouse of a Joseph Grierson, who may be the one referred to in the last entry on the stone.

I can see one OPR for a birth of a child to a couple with these names in Ruthwell:

JANNET GRIER  Christening:  20 JAN 1767 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland
Parents: Father: SAMUEL GRIER    Mother: CATHRINE DICKSON

So, your 1855 cert. would potentially be correct. Samuel son of Joseph and Isabella, Joseph having a father Samuel (your Samuel's g/father) and likely name for his grandmother is Catherine Dickson. Your Samuel could have been called after his grandfather (was he first born son to Joseph and Isabella?). What were the names of your Samuel's children?

I don't think you may have found as yet your Joseph's birth/christening entry. The birth may not have been registered or the Old Parish Register may have been lost/destroyed over the years.

Can you post the URL for the Grierson family tree that you saw on Google, maybe that would help determine who this couple are (Samuel and Janet Dickson). I would say that I have see at least 4 Grierson/Dickson family groups so far in my searches in Ruthwell.

I'm sure other people will contribute more!

Regards.

Monica

[MonicaL]

This looks like your Samuel's birth or christening entry on the OPRs at SP:

19/03/1798   GRIER   SAMUEL   JOSEPH GRIER/ISABEL GRIER FR147   M   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0137

And likely siblings:

1   26/05/1807   GRIERSON   CATHRINE   JOSEPH GRIERSON/ISABELLA GRIERSON FR172   F   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0162   

2   08/08/1814   GRIERSON   ELIZABETH   JOSEPH GRIERSON/ISABELLA GRIERSON FR188   F   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0177   

3   16/01/1810   GRIERSON   JAMES   JOSEPH GRIERSON/ISABELLA GRIERSON FR177   M   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0167   

4   11/10/1799   GRIERSON   JANET WIGHTMAN   JOSEPH GRIERSON/ISABELLA GRIERSON FR154   F   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0144   

5   22/01/1802   GRIERSON   JOHN   JOSEPH GRIERSON/ISABELLA GRIERSON FR162   M   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0152   

6   01/07/1804   GRIERSON   MATTHEW   JOSEPH GRIERSON/ISBELL GRIERSON FR166   M   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0156

[MonicaL]

Ruthwell is very poor on the Old Parish Register entries for marriages    I was looking at the naming order of the children showing Joseph and Isabella, without having found the date of their marriage which doesn't help, from the entries we have, there is Janet Wightman Grierson b. 1798 first and then Samuel b. 1799. Assuming these were their first born children and they followed Scottish naming pattern, Janet would have been after Isabella's mother (first born daughter). There is an entry that would fit for Isabella's christening in Ruthwell with a mother Janet Wightman and father Samuel Grierson (there are a number of Samuel Griersons I've come to learn in Ruthwell at the same time!).

1. JANNET GRIER  Christening: 17 MAR 1771 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland
2. ISOBEL GRIERSON Christening: 14 MAR 1773 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland
3. MARY GRIER Christening: 17 SEP 1775 Ruthwell, Dumfries, Scotland

If you could get confirmation by someone checking the actual stones of death years and ages, it would add to the verification.

Regards.

Monica
 

[MonicaL]

Samuel, wife Margaret Underwood and family in the 1841 Census:

Samuel, 40, farmer
Margaret, 30
Joseph, 14
William, 12
Isabella, 10
Margaret, 8
George John, 6
James, 2
Thomas Willie, 30, ag. lab.
Janet Graham, 17, servant

Address: East upper Priestside, Ruthwell

In the 1851 index, Samuel looks to be indexed as Jannet (!) but certainly him with a big family:

Jannet (Samuel) Grierson 54, Farmer Of 50 Aer Aratle & 50 Moosemploys 4 Labs, b. Ruthwell
Margaret Grierson 42, b. St Manga (St Mungos), Dumfries
Joseph Grierson 23
William Grierson 21
Isabella Grierson 19
Margaret Grierson 17
George Grierson 15
James Grierson    12
Samuel Grierson 10
Mary Grierson    6
Robert Grierson 4
Elisabeth Grierson 2
Andrew Waters    15

Address: Uppertown, Ruthwell

Regards.

Monica

[MonicaL]

  I've just found this site http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GRIERSON/2002-09/1031909912 - Is this the one you referred to? Having spent some time this evening on these lines  , it makes sense with what I have posted here.

Briefly:

Samuel  G. (b. 1710, died 1760, "Priestside" Ruthwell), married Janet Dickson (b. 1716, died 1780, "Priestside") = son Samuel Grierson, b. 1745, died 11th June, 1772, Ruthwell. He married about 1764, Ruthwell to Catherine Dickson (b. 1743, died 24th August, 1780, Ruthwell).

Samuel G. and Catherine Dickson = son Joseph b. 30th August, 1764, Ruthwell died 8th December, 1850, "Lanton Moss" Ruthwell. He married Isabella Grierson, daughter of Samuel Grierson and Janet Wightman (Isabella's line is extensively covered).

Joseph G and Isabella Grierson = son Samuel Grierson, born 18th March, 1798, "Priestside" Ruthwell. Died 8th January 1855......


How lucky are you AH to have found both this old post and the photos of the actual graves, which given the lack of official record, are worth their weight in gold 

If you compare my previous posts with what is showing on this site, it's the same info/lines. Luckily they have been able to read and verify the previous generations.

You owe your Australian cousins a big thanks 

Regards.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Just ticking off my last check for you. Normally farmers can be relied on to leave wills and testaments  Sadly, I can only find a reference to Joseph (first born to Samuel and Margaret Underwood I am assuming):

Grierson Joseph   19/03/1892   Farmer, East Upper Priestside, Parish of Ruthwell, County of Dumfries, d. 01/01/1892 at East Upper Priestside, intestate       Dumfries Sheriff Court   Refs: SC15/41/23

Regards.

Monica 

[AH]

Thankyou soooooo much!
I had become thoroughly confused and had all but given up getting any further back! The site I saw on google wasnt the link you gave but was the same info so, as you said I owe a big thanks to the people who posted all that info too (still cant quite believe how lucky I've been!)
One last question if thats OK? You mentioned about Scottish naming traditions? I hadnt heard of that before? How does it work? Also the Grier/Grierson relationship.......is it just the obvious to distinguish between the millions of Samuels? ie you add a "son" if he is the son.
Thanks once again
AH

[MonicaL]

Hi AH

Firstly, in respect of Scottish naming pattern, this can be a useful guide when trying to trace back previous generations. It wasn't always followed in the prescribed order (some couples didn't do it all!), but in the main, a large number did to some degree. It was also customary to use family surnames as middle names for children, which can also provide clues to previous generations:

1st Son named after Father's Father
2nd Son named after Mother's Father
3rd Son named after Father
4th Son named after Father's oldest brother...

1st Daughter named after Mother's Mother
2nd Daughter named after Father's Mother
3rd Daughter named after Mother
4th Daughter named after Mother's oldest sister...


In respect of the 'son' being used as 'son of' that certainly has some bearing on the traditional developement of surnames across Britain. But as relevant is the fact that surnames and their spellings were much more fluid in those times and not as rigid as they are today. Particularly the further back you go, first and surnames can be spelt in a variety of ways (remember the population in the main would have been unable to read and write) and quite often names were written as they were 'heard' for a variety of records. When searching on Scotlands People, for example, I used wildcards for the surname Gr*r* to pick up on any variants.

Regards.

Monica