Author Topic: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843  (Read 3593 times)

Offline lynnesl0t

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William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« on: Tuesday 03 April 07 09:40 BST (UK) »
Hello William is my ancestor and on his daughters marriage certificate he is shown to be a soldier. Could this be the BOER WAR? How could I find out?

Is anyone on this site doing research in this area please??   ???
Trying to find any informaton at all. His daughter Jane was born in Gt Bookham Surrey c 1820.
ty!!! ;D ;D ;D
Watts, Hardy, Richards, West, Bennett, Robson,Nelmes.Suffolk, Devon, Yorkshire and London

Offline Valda

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Re: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 April 07 10:13 BST (UK) »
There were two Boer Wars. The first in the early 1880s and the second at the very end of the C19th and the beginning of the C20th so William Tyrell would have been far to old to have fought in either.
In the C19th Britain had a standing army just as the country does today so soldiers could have been involved in conflicts or not, depending which battalion of the army they were in and where and when they were stationed around the world.

There are Tyrell baptisms in Great Bookham at the time you are interested in but not for a Jane.

GEORGE TYRRELL   
Christening:  25 JUN 1820   Great Bookham, Surrey
Father:  WILLIAM TYRRELL   
Mother:  ELIZABETH 

ELIZA TYRRELL   
Christening:  29 JUN 1823   Great Bookham, Surrey
Father:  WILLIAM TYRRELL
Mother:  ELIZABETH 

The actual baptism register entries should give the father's occupation.

Burial
4th October 1828 St Nicholas Great Bookham
William Tyrell aged 50

Do you have Jane on any censuses?

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lynnesl0t

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Re: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 04 April 07 10:16 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your reply. I have Jane on the 1851 census by which time she was married to Charles Locke. They were living in Lambeth, London.
On their marriage certificate it states that her Father was a soldier, William Tyrrell and that he appeared to be still alive then.
Charles and Jane married in 1843 in London.
That is definately the same family, maybe she was born a bit earlier.
Thank for your help,
Lynne
Watts, Hardy, Richards, West, Bennett, Robson,Nelmes.Suffolk, Devon, Yorkshire and London

Offline Valda

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Re: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 04 April 07 12:08 BST (UK) »
There is no question on an English marriage which asks whether a father was deceased or not - just name and occupation. When asked those questions some people might also volunteer the additional information that their father was deceased. Some officials chose to add the information, some did not. Some officials chose to ask the question whether the fathers were or not deceased, many did not not. It was not a requirement, merely some officials custom and practice. Therefore the absence of the word deceased on a marriage certificate is no evidence for whether the father was or wasn't deceased by the time of the marriage.

Jane seems pretty consistent about her birth year being circa 1818 on both the 1851 census and the 1861 and 1871 censuses.

1861 census RG9 354 folio 82
6 Lower East Place Lambeth  Surrey   
C Lock  41 Middlesex,  Head Married Labourer
Jane Lock  43 Surrey,  Wife Married 
Harriet Lock  19  Middlesex,  Daughter
Elizth Lock 17 Middlesex,  Daughter   
Chas Lock 13  Middlesex,  Son   
Eliza Lock  11  Middlesex,  Daughter   
Henry Lock 6 Middlesex, Son 
Jane Lock  4  Middlesex,  Daughter   
Wm Lock 2  Middlesex, Son 

1871 census RG10 665 folio 59
8 Francis Court Lambeth  London   
Charles T Locke  51 Cathbone Pl, Oxford St,  Head Married Smith's Labourer
Jane Locke  53  Great Bookham, Surrey,  Wife Married No trade
Elizabeth Locke  26  Fitzroy Square Daughter Charwoman   
Eliza A Locke 21 East St Lambeth Daughter No trade
William Locke  19  Regent St Lambeth Son  Smith's labourer unemployed
Henry G Locke 11  Duke St Lambeth Son  Worker at pottery
Jane Locke  14  Lambeth East St Daughter Servant goes out to work
Emily Locke 9 Lambeth East St Daughter     
George Locke 7  Lambeth East St Son 

If Jane as a child was brought up in Great Bookham she may very well have thought she was born there.

George Tyrell aged 30 and born Great Bookham was a labourer in Walton on Thames on the 1851 census. Still there unmarried an undergardener in 1871.

This is a possible for him in 1841.

HO107 1071/8 folio 35 page 12
Cobham  Surrey   
Elizabeth Tyrrell 60  a tick in the column born in Scotland, Ireland or foreign parts
Henry Tyrrell 25 Surrey Ag lab
George Tyrrell 21  Surrey Ag lab

A birth in Ireland for the wife of a soldier would be consistent with William being in the army.

A possible baptism for Henry

HENRY TURRELL 
Christening:  02 JUL 1815   East Clandon, Surrey
Father:  WILLIAM TURRELL 
Mother:  ELIZABETH 
 
George Tyrell was in Cobham in 1881.
Henry Tyrell aged 42 born East Clandon and unmarried was a labourer and a pauper in Epsom Union workhouse on the 1861 census.

1849 Burial at St Andrew Cobham
Elizabeth Tyrell aged 70

Deaths Jun 1849   
Tyrrell  Elizabeth     Epsom  4 109

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline lynnesl0t

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Re: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 04 April 07 19:48 BST (UK) »
Hello Valda,
Thank you so much for the information you have found for me.I will try to find a birth for Jane somewhere else!! Do you think ths is her family though? It does look like it to me.
Kind regards, Lynne
Watts, Hardy, Richards, West, Bennett, Robson,Nelmes.Suffolk, Devon, Yorkshire and London

Offline Valda

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Re: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 05 April 07 09:05 BST (UK) »
It could be. The actual baptism records themselves would give their father's then occupation

from West Surrey Family History Society

MS4 SUPERINDEX TO NON METROPOLITAN PARISHES (3mf) Enlarged 3rd edition May 2000. A surname index (nearly 198,000 references) to all the Surrey baptism and burial indexes held by Cliff Webb, enabling the unusual surname to be located and researched much more easily. A boon to the one-namer! (3mf) (3.20)

http://www.wsfhs.org/MicroFicheMS.htm

There is one William Tyrell on The National Archives website discharged to an army pension (most men either died in service or left the army before receiving a pension) - no age given or further details so it is impossible to say whether this man is one and the same. The name is not uncommon so there were bound to have been other William Tyrells who were soldiers.

WO 121/159/208  WILLIAM TYRELL alias WILLIAM TYRRELL Born [Not Known] Served in 78th Foot Regiment Discharged aged [Not Known] Original certificate of discharge missing. See film image 473
Covering date 1803.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lynnesl0t

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Re: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 05 April 07 10:13 BST (UK) »
Good morning Valda,
I think that you may have solved our family's mystery!
You see we were told that there was French blood in our line and it looks like it may have been Elizabeth Tyrrell.
As you pointed out there is a tick beside her name on the census (1841), denoting born in perhaps ,foreign parts. Maybe Jane was born abroad but assumed she was born in Gt Bookham because her siblings were????
I am going to investigate further and enquire re French records
Thanks again
Lynne
Watts, Hardy, Richards, West, Bennett, Robson,Nelmes.Suffolk, Devon, Yorkshire and London

Offline Valda

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Re: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 05 April 07 10:52 BST (UK) »
I think it would be more likely that Elizabeth was Irish or Scottish or possibly born in a British colony from an army family. These are the places a British army soldier would be stationed. The army was fighting a protracted war with France (as in the enemy) in Spain - the Peninsular war and finally on French soil leading up to Waterloo 1815 and the aftermath.
If William was a soldier having children in Great Bookham in the early 1820s you would expect that he was an ex-soldier, possibly a pensioner. If his is the burial in Great Bookham in 1828 then his birth year would be circa 1778. If he joined the army no later than aged 20 circa 1798 to receive a pension he would either need to have received a disability in conflict or served 21 years circa 1819ish probably at the latest since he might very well have signed on before he was 20.
Before trying a much more difficult path for French records (for which you as yet have no real evidence - life for a French woman in Surrey just after the Napleonic Wars would not have been easy and the names of William and Elizabeth's children show no French influence) I would check the West Surrey baptism index for possibles. The IGI has about a 64% coverage of Surrey so there are plenty of possibilities in surrounding parishes to East Clandon and Great Bookham where Jane's baptism might be.
I would also access the full baptism records themselves to see whether they confirm this could be the family or eliminate them as possibles. Only then can you be sure this family is worth following and the baptisms for George and Henry connect - there was at least one other George Tyrell on the 1841 census of the same age who was in Byfleet an ag lab. He could just as easily be the George baptised in Great Bookham who had no connection to the Henry in East Clandon - there are other William and Elizabeth Tyrell baptisms in Surrey around the same time.
You really need to check thoroughly what you already have to see whether it holds up, not just presume this must be them because you have found a possibility.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lynnesl0t

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Re: William Tyrrell - soldier in 1843
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 05 April 07 12:09 BST (UK) »
Thank you Valda,
your comments have been very helpful.
I have found a baptism for a Jane Terrell, 17th July 1817, in Guildford Surrey, but the parents names are William and Mary. This could be correct however!!!
I have also found a marriage for William and an Elizabeth Thomas in St Mary, Lewisham Kent 27th October 1812.
The more I look , the more confusing it gets!!!!
regards, Lynne
Watts, Hardy, Richards, West, Bennett, Robson,Nelmes.Suffolk, Devon, Yorkshire and London