William Dent HAINES

[Mansl]

Could anyone help me find out more about William Dent Haines father of Frederick Haines Born 1862 Hartpury.Grandfather of Joseph Henry Charles Haines Born Malvern 1888.

[Dave Francis]

Hi Billy - and a very warm welcome to RootsChat!

What sort of information do you seek?

Or, more precisely, if you tell us what you have already it will help us to help you.

Dave

[Mansl]

Hello Dave Im afraid I have nothing on William only that he was the father of Frederick (1862) and he was a farmer.Thats what it says on the marriage certificate of Frederick and Keziah.So I am clutching at straws really.Regards Billy

[JAP]

Hello Billy,

It's a good idea to give as much information as possible - as Dave says, that will help RootsChatters to help you.

You mention a marriage certificate of Frederick HAINES & Keziah.
There is a marriage listed on FreeBMD at:
http://www.freebmd.rootsweb.com/
of a Frederick HAINES, June quarter 1886, registered in Gloucester, Gloucestershire, Volume 6a, Page 473.  On the same page a Kezia DANIELS is listed.
Is this the relevant marriage?
What were the ages, occupations and addresses of Frederick & Kezia?
Was Frederick's father listed as deceased?

You say that Frederick was born in Hartpury in 1862.
Where did you get that information?
If you can obtain Frederick's birth certificate, that should give you the name and maiden surname of his mother - which might help you find the marriage of his parents.

And with all this information, you might be able to find - or helpful RootsChatters might find for you - relevant census entries.

Best of luck,

JAP
PS: I cannot find a Frederick HAINES born Hartpury in 1862 on FreeBMD - but that index is not complete!  The nearest is a Frederick John HAINES, birth, Newent, Gloucestershire (which included Hartpury) in the September quarter, 1858, Vol 6a, Page 189.  A relevant baptism for that birth is in the International Genealogical Index (IGI) on FamilySearch at:
http://www.familysearch.org/
Frederick John HAINES, mother Elizabeth HAINES, bap 3 Aug 1858, Hartpury, Gloucester, England.  As there is no father listed, it seems that this Frederick was illegitimate.
 

[Dave Francis]

Hi there

Some more food for thought...

I must admit that I’m a little perplexed.

I can see Frederick in the censuses of 1891 and 1901. He consistently stated that he was born in Hartpury, Glos, and that he was aged 29 and 39 respectively. This means his birth should have been registered in Newent sometime in the early 1860s.

I cannot find an entry for him in the GRO births index.

I cannot find him in earlier censuses.

I cannot see a birth, marriage or death registration for his father, William Dent Haines.

There was a slightly older Frederick John Haines who was baptised 3 August 1858 in Hartpury and who was the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Haines. (See his entry on the IGI.) And I can see this chap in the 1871 and 1881 censuses. By 1881 he was living in Colwall, Herefordshire, with his wife Harriet (born c1856 in Hartpury). Curiously – significantly, perhaps – I can’t find this Frederick (or Harriet) in 1891 or 1901.

It crosses my mind that your Frederick and this Frederick John may have been the same man, that he was previously married and that he understated his age in 1891 and 1901 (for reasons unknown). As a matter of interest, how old was he supposed to be when he died?

Checking earlier censuses I see that there were one or two families called Haines living in Hartpury. Intriguingly, the 1871 census reveals a farmer called William Dent (not William Dent Haines) living on Gloster Road. His immediate neighbours were William and Eliza Haines. Details as follows:

1871 Hartpury, Gloucestershire
RG 10/2609 folio 79 page 9

Address: Woodhams
William HAINES, head, m, 45, ag lab
Eliza, wife, m, 49, ag lab
Henry, son, 10, scholar
William, son, 7, scholar
All recorded as born in Hartpury

Next household on sheet –
Address: Gloster Rd
William DENT, head, 71, farmer of 40 acres employing 1 man, Cloton Staffordshire
Sophia, wife, 70, farmer’s wife, Hartpury Gloucestershire
Mary A., granddaur, 11, scholar, Hartpury Gloucestershire
John MANS, serv, 20, farm lab, Hartpury Gloucestershire

I suppose that William and Eliza Haines might have been your Frederick’s parents. Or perhaps William Dent was his father.

Further input from other RootsChatters would help!

Dave

[janan]

Hi Billy
Welocme to Rootschat

Having had a search I'm with Dave on the possibility of Frederick John baptised 1858 being the same person as yours born 1862. I can't see him in 1861 though - have you located him Dave?
Will keep looking
Jan

[Mansl]

HI Jan thanks for your reply I must mention that When Frederick married Keziah Jane Daniels on June 9th 1886 he was 25 and a widower.So somewhere he was married before and to whom is a mystery.I was just about to let Dave know when I received your message.Billy

[Dave Francis]

Hi Jan

Nope - have drawn a blank on FJH in 1861 - and his mother Elizabeth (who may have married in the meantime).

I note from the 1861 Census that William and Eliza Haines did have a daughter called Elizabeth, but she was only a child and could not therefore have been FJH's mother.

Dave

PS - Billy, have just seen your message. Aha!

[Dave Francis]

Worth looking into this marriage...

Frederick HAINES
March qtr 1881, Ledbury 6a 585
Only matching reference: Harriet SMITH

Ledbury is in Herefordshire