Author Topic: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted  (Read 6320 times)

Offline garethgriffiths

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Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« on: Monday 04 June 07 22:01 BST (UK) »
Hello, maybe one for Old Rowley?  I am looking for a date on this 3d image that I secured on a popular auction site recently.  Maybe the clothes will help or the Admission 6d entrance price on the left turnstile.  How does this compare say with football prices for Stoke City or Port Vale the local teams?

Oh yes, what on earth did they call these photo types?
thanks Gareth
GRIFFITHS - Llandudno/Eglwysbach/Glan Conwy/BetwsYCoed/Llanbeblig/Caernarvon
BLEYTHIN - Llanbeblig
EVANS - Eglwysbach
JONES - Conwy/Llanrwst/TalYBont/Rowen
KEMP - Middlesbrough/Southport/Ainderby Quernhow/Kilburn/Sutton/North Riding
BONNER - Middlesbrough/Walsall/Escombe/South Hylton/Westoning, SMITH
TAYLOR/ORTH - Middlesbrough/Southport
TURNOCK - StokeOnTrent Goldenhill, Odd Rode/Astbury, Cheshire
TUNSTALL/WILCOX/DOYLE/BOYLE - Stoke on Trent (Goldenhill)
HARP - Fenton
ROGERS/STANTON - Chester

Offline garethgriffiths

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Re: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04 June 07 22:02 BST (UK) »
Forgot to ask does anyone know where the gates went to?
Gareth
GRIFFITHS - Llandudno/Eglwysbach/Glan Conwy/BetwsYCoed/Llanbeblig/Caernarvon
BLEYTHIN - Llanbeblig
EVANS - Eglwysbach
JONES - Conwy/Llanrwst/TalYBont/Rowen
KEMP - Middlesbrough/Southport/Ainderby Quernhow/Kilburn/Sutton/North Riding
BONNER - Middlesbrough/Walsall/Escombe/South Hylton/Westoning, SMITH
TAYLOR/ORTH - Middlesbrough/Southport
TURNOCK - StokeOnTrent Goldenhill, Odd Rode/Astbury, Cheshire
TUNSTALL/WILCOX/DOYLE/BOYLE - Stoke on Trent (Goldenhill)
HARP - Fenton
ROGERS/STANTON - Chester

Offline PrueM

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Re: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« Reply #2 on: Monday 04 June 07 22:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Gareth  :)

Usually just called "stereo-views" or "stereo-cards"...they were designed for use with a stereoviewer but if you're like me and can go cross-eyed, you can usually make them work without a special apparatus!

I think this is one for OR who could determine a date from the clothes hopefully, but I can tell you that stereo-cards were extremely popular in the 1860s and 70s, though I have seen them from as late as the 1890s and possibly even later.

Prue

Offline PrueM

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Re: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04 June 07 22:06 BST (UK) »
deleted, as I see you've already answered my questions!


Offline PrueM

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Re: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« Reply #4 on: Monday 04 June 07 22:11 BST (UK) »
Gareth, are the gates the public entry to Clough Hall, the stately home? 

Offline garethgriffiths

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Re: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« Reply #5 on: Monday 04 June 07 22:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Prue, As I live around the corner from this place....
the entrance is to the Clough Hall pleasure grounds that were created there at some date.  Clough Hall mansion as you put it was on the estate and around the corner too.  Bourne Cottage behind the left turnstile is still there today.  Thanks for the info as well,

The alterations of Clough Hall Mansion to The Paradise of the Potteries occurred just before the turn of the century. The mansion became a theme park that was visited by hundred from all over.
regards Gareth


GRIFFITHS - Llandudno/Eglwysbach/Glan Conwy/BetwsYCoed/Llanbeblig/Caernarvon
BLEYTHIN - Llanbeblig
EVANS - Eglwysbach
JONES - Conwy/Llanrwst/TalYBont/Rowen
KEMP - Middlesbrough/Southport/Ainderby Quernhow/Kilburn/Sutton/North Riding
BONNER - Middlesbrough/Walsall/Escombe/South Hylton/Westoning, SMITH
TAYLOR/ORTH - Middlesbrough/Southport
TURNOCK - StokeOnTrent Goldenhill, Odd Rode/Astbury, Cheshire
TUNSTALL/WILCOX/DOYLE/BOYLE - Stoke on Trent (Goldenhill)
HARP - Fenton
ROGERS/STANTON - Chester

Offline old rowley

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Re: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 05 June 07 08:29 BST (UK) »
My first thoughts on this staged picture is that there really is nothing in the way of clues for dating this to be taken from the clothing that is being worn. The three teenagers on the right are all wearing working clothes, boots/trousers (with the knees "pulled" out from being worn alot)/ jackets (in one case too small for the owner) and waistcoat and muffler around the neck topped off with a flat cap. But looking at it more closely the lad at the rear of this grouping appears to be wearing a sack coat as his jacket is fastened by the top button only and the fall and cut of the jacket resembles that of a coat of this style. Looking over to the adult who is standing outside the gate house he is wearing a low felt hat and the bottom of his jacket has rounded edges and comes up to an inverted v when fastened. Therefore I would give a date of some where between 1880-1895.

In relation to the gates I can only assume that they disappeared during the 2nd ww when the cry went out for metal for turning into spitfires and the like (a total waste of time as it turned out as most of the metal collected was of poor quality and could not be used and for many it meant the loss of railings around graves, houses and unfortunately some ornate metal gates were to disappear as well).

old rowley
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Offline garethgriffiths

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Re: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 05 June 07 11:17 BST (UK) »
Many thanks once again Old Rowley, your knowledge on this subject truely amazes me in terms of detail and accuracy.  I really wish I could look at photgraphs in the same way that you do studying the many varied aspects of what you see before you.  Just one question what is a sack coat was it literally a coat made from sack cloth?
Thanks once again, regards Gareth
GRIFFITHS - Llandudno/Eglwysbach/Glan Conwy/BetwsYCoed/Llanbeblig/Caernarvon
BLEYTHIN - Llanbeblig
EVANS - Eglwysbach
JONES - Conwy/Llanrwst/TalYBont/Rowen
KEMP - Middlesbrough/Southport/Ainderby Quernhow/Kilburn/Sutton/North Riding
BONNER - Middlesbrough/Walsall/Escombe/South Hylton/Westoning, SMITH
TAYLOR/ORTH - Middlesbrough/Southport
TURNOCK - StokeOnTrent Goldenhill, Odd Rode/Astbury, Cheshire
TUNSTALL/WILCOX/DOYLE/BOYLE - Stoke on Trent (Goldenhill)
HARP - Fenton
ROGERS/STANTON - Chester

Offline old rowley

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Re: Clough Hall Kidsgrove date wanted
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 05 June 07 15:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Gareth,

The sack coat is said to have drawn its name from the fact that it was loose and shapless in cut and at times ill fitting as a sack would be if worn as a piece of clothing. The material used to fashion the coat from could be tweed/homespun/wool or linen fabric. Whilst styles came in hounds tooth/plain/small checks/ narrow stripes and plaid all mostly in dark colours.

Since my last posting I have found out that Clough Hall Estate was purchased in 1890 by a Manchester Company and turned into a pleasure park and in 1927 the house was demolished.

old rowley
Claxton- East London & Essex<br />Cuthbert- Mile End East London <br />Edwards - East London & Essex<br />Goll- Norfolk<br />Harris-Mile End East London<br />Hurr - Suffolk<br />Law- Bethnal Green East London<br />Moll- East London<br />Robinson- Bethnal Green East London<br />Tait- Argyll & Glasgow<br />Thompson Shoreditch East london<br />Watson- Glasgow<br />Wood- Bethnal Green East London<br /><br />Local history interest; Noak Hill & Harold Hill Essex<br /><br />census information crown cop