Ignatius Neal or McNeal winecooper in Brighton

[anne77]

Can anyone help me with my Neal research please.

I am researching my g.g.g.grandfather Willliam Neal. In all the census records his year

of birth is noted as being between 1831 and 1834 and always born in Brighton.

On his marriage certificate there is no information about his father and in the 1841

census he is living in Brighton Workhouse with no other Neal's, so must assume he has no

living relations at that time.

The only baptism entry I have found for William in the parish records for brighton is

of a William Roberts Neal christened in 1830. The entry shows his father as Ignatius, a

wine cooper and his mother as Ann.  Their abode is stated as'France' which I understand

not to be the 'France' across the water but the 'France' slum/poor area in Brighton at

that time.

I have found two entries for William's father Ignatius, one as Neal and the other as

McNeal, they are as follows:-

Marriage of Ignatius Mc Neal bachelor to Ann Young widow 22nd July 1826 Brighton
Burial of Ignatius Neal 1st December 1826 age 66 abode Camelford Street Brighton

I am not convinced that William's father is Ignatius because of Ignatius's death in

1826 and William's baptism in 1830.

Has anyone any suggestions on how I can find out more about this family or any

suggestions about where Ignatius Neal/McNeal could have come from.

[carrielovesfanta]

Hi Anne,

It's possible that if the family were poor, William may have been baptised a few years after he was born. Sometimes families had several children christened together, the oldest sometimes being around 10! I'm sure that the other rootschatters will have some better suggestions, but it's worth bearing it in mind.

Also, Ignatius who dies is very old... could he be the father of the Ignatius that got married?

Do you have William's marriage cert? Does that say his father's name?

Caz

[anne77]

Thanks Caz,

On William's marriage certificate it just has a line through for his father.

I also wondered if there might have been two Ignatius's but there is nothing on the IGI.

[carrielovesfanta]

The IGI isn't complete so there still may be two of them, it might be worth asking on the requests board if anyone has access to the parish records, or having a look on http://www.freereg.org.uk/ - the coverage is less than complete though, so don't be suprised if it's not there.

sorry, I just realised that you wrote about the marriage cert when you first posted...doh! 

Caz

PS: I just checked and there's no coverage for Sussex on freereg

[Roy G]

Checked my fiche which is a transcript of the St Nicholas parish baptisms 1813-1837, but there is no mention of your William under Neale (in its various spellings) or MacNeil. 

For your info however.
Should the baptism you already have turn out to br the correct one, the "France" slum's proper name was Petty France'  It was a horredous duckborded area built around an open cess pit, inhabited by the town's worst villans and prostitutes.  (read Edward Cresy's work on Brighton's sanitation dated 1848).  Today the site is lost beneath Boots the Chemists where Queens Road meets West Street.

Roy G

[anne77]

Thanks Roy G

The entry I found for William was in the BT's at Chichester Record Office, it is also on the IGI but submitted by a LDS member and not the same.  It could have been 1832

'Petty France' sounds terrible, I will try and track down Edward Cresy's work on Brighton's Sanitation though I am not sure I want to know much more!

It sounds as if poor William had a rough time of it.  Would someone then who was living in 'Petty France' and possible either a 'villan or prostitute' be able to get their child baptised in the Church?

Anne

[Roy G]

Oopse, small correction.

Tim Carder wrote
A number of squalid courtyards were built off North Street in the early nineteenth century, and by the 1840s names such as Durham, Petty France and Air Street were counted amongst the worst slums in the town; most were cleared for the construction of Queen's Road in 1845.
It would therefore seem that Petty France only appeared in the 1841 census and was gone by 1848 when Edward Cresy wrote his report on Brighton's sanitation.  Sorry.

As a small reccompence, have a look at my illustration of the Brighton Workhouse and its supporting history which appears on http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Brighton/Brighton.shtml

Roy G

[anne77]

Thanks Roy,

I have read your info on Brighton Workhouse and have a copy in my records!  It is very informative and helpful.  Thanks for a great site! 

Do you know anything about Laurel Row in Kemptown which is where William resided in the 1851 census?  Would the workhouse have found him work or trained him, he is listed as a labourer in 1851 and he is a brickmaker in Surbiton Surrey in the 1861 census.

Regards

Anne

[Roy G]

Hi again Anne

I would love to give you more info on Laurel Row, but Cresy's report which is my historical bible is burried in a banana box somewhere.  Before you think of me as an absolute nutcase, I ought to explain that a year ago I retired and moved abroad to a property I am renovating.  Those renovations are still not complete and I have yet to unpack 60 identical banana boxes, all of which just have the word "Books" written on the side.

From memory, Laurel Row was near the Paradise Cottages slaughterhouse, in an area which Doctor William Kebbel descibed as having open gutters flowing with animal blood and and an atmosphere "full of loathsome flies."  This 1848 report rather upsets the more popular idea of Brighton as a thriving health resort dosn't it?

As for your ancestor learning a trade at the workhouse, I would very much doubt it.  In the 1830s to 1850s, the male inmates were mostly used as cheap labour on the Guardians' personal projects and the younger females were often transported to Oz for minor offences in the hope that they would become brides for former convict labourers. 

When my grandmother's parents were children (1846) they were in that particular Brighton workhouse, and to this day I recall that although demolished 100 years earlier, she made a point of never walking on the workhouse side of Dyke Road, such was the fear that had been instilled into her in her youth.

Roy G