Author Topic: Born in Nottingham Prison  (Read 17663 times)

Offline dollylee

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 10 July 07 09:05 BST (UK) »
Carmela:

I am not sure if it is possible that William would have ended up in Kent in 1891 but I did find a William Arthur Stanley on the 1891 England Census who is of the right age , he is listed as a boarder and one of the other two young boarders can also be found as a British Home Child of Dr. Barnardos. The birth place of all three young boarders is recorded at N.K., which I assume means not known.

I was at the very end of a three day trial on Ancestry.com when I found this and before I was finished my time was up so I am going to have to type this from my notes which might be difficult  ;D

1891 Census:

#34 Chapel Cottages, Sandhurst, Kent

Saxby James  married age 57 General Carpenter
Saxby Ann  married  age 55
Saxby Sydney C. single  grandson 11
Stanley, William Arthur single boarder 5
Blackett, John single  boarder 5
Austen, Edward single boarder 5

Could this possibly be the right young man?  John Blackett (above)  ended up in Oxford North, Ontario in the James Heeny household.

Hope it has some relevance...doesn't really tell you anything even if it is the right boy.

dollylee





indiapaleale

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 10 July 07 13:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Carmela,
Re the Barnardo's records. I do think that they are quite strict about releasing records to next of kin only. However, I think that if you sent them an email, they will tell you were your friend could write for details.

I have seen differing reports on what the Barnardo's records might contain. Some have a great deal of info re the child's parents and siblings (if any) including the circumstances leading up to the child's placement in the home. Many records include a photograph. But some people have been disappointed to find only a couple of pages of vague information.

My British Home Children relatives were from the Middlemore Home in Birmingham and the records contained many details of the sad story of the children and their parents - both of whom died.

Re the entry that  dollylee has found. I actually think that all three of those boys were Barnardos children. I found Edward Austin (Austen) aged 11 sailing to Canada in 1898.

How three little boys - from parts unknown - ended up with the Saxby family....well, one can only speculate.....but I would bet money that they are all orphans.

Re Liverpool to Ontario in 10 days is about the right amount of time for that journey. It was 5/6 days on the ship and the rest by train.

Regards
Indi





Offline waiteohman

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 11 July 07 00:25 BST (UK) »
Hello Carmela and Indi

From personal experience, Barnardos would not release documents to myself or sister, the great grandchildren. It had to be next of kin, my dad - his grandson. They did have my great grandfather's records; however, at 50 pounds (approx $100 Cdn), he a pensioner and not knowing what he would get, he would not pursue it further. This was a request early last year. Their small fee has gone the way of supply and demand.

Linda
Dorman, Waite, Moore, Clark/Clarke, Neil, Rennie/Rainey, Brown, Mclean, Day, Millar/Miller, Gunion/Gunzion, Thomson, Black, Milvain, McCubbin, Steadman, Kirby


Offline Carmela

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 11 July 07 07:48 BST (UK) »
Hello Everyone,
Well, it looks like that was our William living with the Saxbys in 1891. The full name William Arthur helps to convince me that this is the right boy. Thanks Dollylee. So sad to think of him having been moved to Kent. I am beginning to think that when he was baptised at 6 months of age, he had just been taken away from his mother. He probably never saw her again. No wonder he could not tell his children anything about his family.

Indi, I had no idea that the old steamships of the early 1900s were fast enough to cross the Atlantic in 5 or 6 days. A journey of less than 10 days ties in nicely with the census records.

Linda, thanks for telling me about the cost of obtaining
records from Dr. B.'s. With no guarantee of what they may contain, I think the decision in this case will be the same as that of your grandfather. The decision is not mine to make, so I'll gather and relay the information
on how to contact the Dr.B people.

Cheers,
Carmela
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationararchives.gov.uk

Current obsessions:
OXF: Rose of Wheatley and Holton 1700s
BRK: Stevenson of East Hanney 1600-1880s
BKM: Woodman of Wing
DEV: Youlden of Whimple
SOM: Smith, Gudge, Joy and Tett of Crewkerne

Offline Knellie

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 01 August 07 04:08 BST (UK) »
Hi All,
I am trying to help an elderly friend. This woman's father was born in Nottingham Prison , June 30th, 1885.
I have a copy of the birth cert. which states:
Name: William Arthur Stanley
Mother: Ellen Stanley, domestic servant
Signature,description, residence of informant:
Ellen Stanley Mother,  HM Prison Nottingham

Regards,
Carmela

After recent visit to Nottingham Archive I have found no evidence of Ellen!!!! in Nottingham Prison...but tried hard to find references for where prison actually was - the card index was empty!? :-\ :(

The Southwell House (which appears to have been opened on the site of the Old Gaol) records had no reference to her - very interesting document though.  List of names at given at the back of each Log Book and then a page of notes as to character, reason they were there, some newspaper cuttings and letters if the girls moved to a better life.

References held for Nottingham Assizes seemed to refer just to male prisoners - looked around 1884/1885 - it was very interesting to see information held, so an interesting exercise anyway.  There were also Police Photographs records - mainly male.  Also reference to 'Galleries of Justice' now a tourist venue, which may be worth making enquiries at time permitting.  ???

So sorry or possibly confirmation she was some type of Domestic but National Archive may have more records.

Noticed Baptism reference will try to take a closer look at some point.

A fascinating quest!
Best wishes Knellie




                           






Offline Carmela

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 01 August 07 05:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Knellie,
Thank you so much for trying. What you did was really
"above and beyond". At least we can be fairly sure that
she was not sent up for some really serious crime.
Somehow, it still seems a little odd that she would have given birth to a baby in the prison, if she was employed
there as a domestic. I really can't see prison authorities
allowing that to happen. Surely she would have lost her job and probably ended up giving birth in the workhouse.
Well, I guess it's back to the drawing board. I shall give it some more thought and try to see if there is any other approach.

Thanks again,
Carmela
















Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationararchives.gov.uk

Current obsessions:
OXF: Rose of Wheatley and Holton 1700s
BRK: Stevenson of East Hanney 1600-1880s
BKM: Woodman of Wing
DEV: Youlden of Whimple
SOM: Smith, Gudge, Joy and Tett of Crewkerne

Offline Knellie

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 01 August 07 05:27 BST (UK) »
Hi Carmela

It's interesting to see what info. is out there. There may be other resources to check ::).

Knellie

Offline Carmela

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 01 August 07 05:37 BST (UK) »
Hi again,
I just realised that you did not mention the Petty Sessions or Quarter Sessions records. This is not a criticism of your good work, just wondering if there is anything left to check.

Cheers,
Carmela
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationararchives.gov.uk

Current obsessions:
OXF: Rose of Wheatley and Holton 1700s
BRK: Stevenson of East Hanney 1600-1880s
BKM: Woodman of Wing
DEV: Youlden of Whimple
SOM: Smith, Gudge, Joy and Tett of Crewkerne

Offline Knellie

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 01 August 07 12:29 BST (UK) »
Definitely yes there are both at Archive or Local Studies Library - e.g. newspapers possibly.  It was just unfortunate that there was only the marker card for prisons.  :-\

Actually the Quarter Sessions I checked were the ones for Nottm. for:-
 Midsummer1884/Michaelmas/Epiphany/Easter/Midsummer 1885.
References C/QSP/2/84 - 88

There must be something somewhere for women as notes for those at Southwell House suggest they were taken there from the Assizes. ??? ???

This is a new area to me and I'm interested in exploring new sets of documents - and how they relate to each other, I might even find some relatives :o.

Best wishes
Knellie