Edwin and Ivy Bates of Waddon, Croydon

[doverrog]

Hello,
I wonder if anyone can help with the Bates family of Waddon, Croydon. I'm unable to find any record other than the following 'bare bones' from a member of the family.
Edwin Bates and his wife Ivy lived in Waddon, Croydon. Edwin was a Stoker and they had 4 children - Ivy born 8th April 1922, John who had his own business (not known what), Edward (who later held a senior post in the London Ambulance Service) and June (who married a Steve).
Any help greatfully received.
(Original error corrected)

[Dave Francis]

Hi doverrog

A bit confused here. Are you looking for the surname Bates or Martin?

Also are you sure about Ivy's date of birth? She should have been registered in the June or September quarters of 1922. I can't see an Ivy Bates in the June quarter. There is one in the next quarter, but registered in Shardlow (Derbyshire).

Dave

[doverrog]

Hi doverrog

A bit confused here. Are you looking for the surname Bates or Martin?

Also are you sure about Ivy's date of birth? She should have been registered in the June or September quarters of 1922. I can't see an Ivy Bates in the June quarter. There is one in the next quarter, but registered in Shardlow (Derbyshire).

Dave

WHOOPS! Apologies to all. I'm looking for Bates. (The daughter Ivy Bates married  a Sidney William Martin 10th April 1947 at Croydon). The date of birth for Ivy, his wife who died about 2001, comes from Sidney.

[Dave Francis]

Hi again

I can see Ivy and Sidney's marriage registration. (June qtr 1947, Croydon vol 5g p 241).

The entry shows that her middle initial was "A".

I think Sidney may have been 6 months out with Ivy's date of birth.

The GRO Deaths Index (1984-2005) records the deaths of five women called Ivy Martin with 1922 as their year of birth. Only one had the middle initial "A" - Ivy Alice Martin born 8 November 1922 (age 78) registered January 2001 in Tunbridge Wells.

Returning to the Births Index we find...

Ivy A Bates, registered December quarter 1922 in Croydon (vol 2a page 421)
Mother's maiden name: Sainsbury

So I guess we are now looking for the marriage of Edwin Bates to Ivy Sainsbury?

[Dave Francis]

They obviously cut it a bit fine...

Marriage registration:
Edwin A Bates
Ivy E D Sainsbury
Dec qtr 1922, Croydon vol 2a page 742

[Dave Francis]

Possible birth registration:

Edwin Aaron Bates
March qtr 1899. Croydon vol 2a page 308

Ivy Emily D Sainsbury
March qtr 1904, Croydon vol 2a page 246

[doverrog]

Many, Many thanks Dave. That's really got me going.
I suppose remembering the wife's birthday can be a challenge for any of us!!
What a really great web site this is for all of us.
Best Wishes,
Roger

[Dave Francis]

And there's more.....

A distinct possibility - the only Edwin Bates in Croydon...

1901 Croydon, Surrey
RG 13/642 folio 129 pp31-32

111 Dennett Road
Thomas W Bates, head, married, 53, asphalter (own account), Hastings Sussex
Alice [Bates], boarder [sic], single, 34, Deptford Kent
Alice do., daur, 14, Croydon Surrey
Ethel do., daur, 12, Croydon Surrey
William do., son, 10, Croydon Surrey
James, do., son, 8, Croydon Surrey
Alfred, do., son, 6, Croydon Surrey
Henry do., son, 4, Croydon Surrey
Edwin do., son, 2, Croydon Surrey

Why was Alice described as a "boarder" and single?
[Because they weren't actually married...see below]

The 1891 Census makes interesting reading...

1891 Croydon, Surrey
RG 12/589 folios 137 (p8) & 138 (p9)

111 Dennett Road
Thomas W Bates, head, married, 44, fencing and tar[r]ing labour, Hastings Sussex
Alice do., wife, married, 26, Deptford Kent
Rebecca do., daur, 16, Croydon Surrey
Alice H. do, daur, 6, Croydon Surrey
Ethel do., daur, 3, Croydon Surrey
William R. do., son, 5mo, Croydon Surrey
Arthur Giles, boarder, widower, 59, ground labourer, Croydon Surrey

So does the 1881 Census...

1881 Croydon, Surrey
RG 11/810 folio 23 page 55

Laurel Cottage (next to 5 Coleshill Terrace)
Thomas W Bates, head, marr, 34, contractor, Hastings Sussex
Rebecca do., mar, 27, Crowboro Sussex
Thomas W. do., son, 12, scholar, Croydon Surrey
Arthur J. do., son, 10, scholar, Croydon Surrey
Lucy do., daur, 7, scholar, Croydon Surrey
Rebecca do., daur, 4, Croydon Surrey
Alice Lake, visitor, 16, general servant, Deptford Kent
Emily Morley, servant, 14, general servant, Chelsham Surrey

And finally, note the year!

Marriage registration:
Thomas William Bates
Dec qtr 1902, Greenwich vol 1d p 1758
Matching reference:
Alice Lake 

[Dave Francis]

Now it REALLY gets confusing!

1871 Croydon, Surrey
RG 10/845 folios 40 (p2) & 41 (p 3)

7 Windmill Grove
Arthur Giles, head, mar, 45, excavator, Croydon Surrey
Elizabeth Cove [?], lodger, wid, 42, charwoman, Beckshill Sussex
Thomas Bates, lodger, mar, 24, labourer, Hastings Sussex
Alice Bates, wife, mar, 31, Croydon Surrey
Thomas Bates, son, 2, Croydon Surrey
John A G Stacey, adopted, 6, Croydon Surrey

Arthur Giles was with Thomas in 1891.