Cloone-Conmaicne RC parish - McGowan, Donnelly, Carrigan and Holohan Families

[richeds79]

I am currently searching for info on my Irish ancestors, who left Leitrim between 1845-51 during the Famine, going first to Dundee working in the Jute trade, and eventually on to the East End of London around 1882.


I do not know the exact town parish they were from, but do know it was in the Cloone-Conmaicne, Roman Catholic Parish, Diocese of Ardagh. I am hoping someone here may have access to their records and be good enough to help me.

This is the info I have on my ancestors so far from Dundee Records"

James Donnelly, a Mason, married Bridget McGowan 1823 Cloone-Conmaicne (Have seen her name also spelt McGoan, MaGooan and even as McEwan in Scottish records)

Interested in any children they may have had 1823-1848

Chilrden that appear on the censi in Dundee are as Follows

Mary
Catherine b.1832 circa
Margaret b.1835 circa (most important to me my 3xgreat grandmother)
Cormack b.1838 circa
Andrew b.1842 circa

Sure there must have been others though.

Bridget is a widow on 1851 census, so James presumably died in the famine.
Bridget died herself in Dundee 1866, age given as 56 approx.

They also bought with them a young man called James Holohan, who it seems was orphaned of both his parents and perhaps any siblings too in the famine. He went on to marry Margaret in 1856, in St Andrews Catholic Church Dundee, and was my 3x great grandfather.

His occupation in 1851 was a reed maker and age given as 15, which gives a birth date of around 1835, though on latter census he is a bit flaky and could conceivably have been born as early as 1829/30.

I know from his death certificate he was the son of Thomas Holohan, a Cobler, and Mary Holohan nee Carrigan. I can't be 100% certain he is from Cloone, Leitrim too and came with them. But since he is living alone with them from the earliest Scottish census seems quite likely.

Any info greatfully recieved and very much appreciated.

Richard


 

[maryp]

Have you gotten this info yet? I'm waiting now for the Cloone parish registers film to come in at the Family History Center.

[Jim I]

James Donnelly married Bridget Magoon at Cloone on 16th June 1823.  Witnesses were John Gannon and Bridget Magoon.

They lived at Sunnaghmore, Cloone.  Map can be seen at Leitrim-Roscommon web site.

Parish records show 3 children
Mary baptised 12th Jul 1824
Catherine 29th Jun 1826 and
James 17th Apr 1838

There is also a Cormack - baptised 22nd Mar 1830 but his mother is given as Elizabeth Keegan.  I have considered that that name may be a mistake and so it is possible that this is the same family.  (I have found several similar mistakes in the past.)

At this time there are several acknowledged gaps in the Cloone records (mid 30’s to late 40’s) and unless there were other mistakes we are unlikely to find the ret of the family.

Jim

[richeds79]

Hello Jim

Thanks again for your kind help. You were good enough to look the family up for me some time ago now and found the following baptisms:


Mary Donnelly, 12th July 1824, Daughter of James Donnelly and Elizabeth MaGoon in Sunnaghmore, Cloone (Sponsers Cormack and Catherine McGovern)

Catherine Donnelly, 29th June 1826, Daughter of James Donnelly and Bridget McGoan in Sunnaghmore, Cloone (Sponsors James and Anne Donnelly)

Cormack Donnelly, 22 March 1830, Son of James Donnely and Elizabeth Keegan, in Sunnaghmore, Cloone (Sponsors Peter Donnelly and Mary Cannon)

Margaret Donnelly, 11 March 1836, Daughter of James Donnelly and Ann Keegan, in Drumhallow, Cloone (Sponsors Conn O`Donnell and Bridget Flynn)

James Donnelly, 17th Apr 1838, Son of James Donnelly and Bridget McGoan in Sunnaghmore, Cloone (Sponsors Michael Beirne and Catherine McGarty)


I've since been trying hard to get my head round it. All the right children, bar Andrew, are there, in more or less right order of age, but obviously the mothers name differs significantly! On her death cert in Scotland Bridget Donnelly/McGoan, her parents are given, by her son, as Andrew McGoan and Catherine McGarty. So the Catherine McGovern/McGarty standing as sponser on Mary and James's baptisms could be the grandmother.

It seems more likely I suppose the Margaret you found is child to the James and Anne Donnelly who stood as sponsers to Catherine, though funnily enough my great great great gran Margaret is the only one of the siblings in Scotland absolutely consistent about her year of birth 1836!

Incidently, armed with the info you gave me, I did look at the 1833 Tithes for Cloone, and found Sunnaghmore/Sonamore. There were twenty households and land holdings large enough to be taxed, five of which were occupied by Donnelly families, including two James's. The largest plots taxed in Sunnaghmore were 20-25 acre, smallest just 1/4 acre, majority though in between that about 6-9 acres. I have read those with under 20 really struggled in the famine. The five plots leased by the Donnellys were all well under this in 1833, they ranged from 7 acre plots to 2.5. Funnily enough though the five exactly add up to one larger 25 acre plot, so I suspect they are related and originally it was one plot, that's been subdivided in the family over time due to death, etc. 

Anyway, by Griffiths in the 1850's only three of the five Donnelly plots from 1833 remain, and one of those missing is one of the James's. I know my James definently died between 1842 and 1851 when the last child Andrew was born in Ireland and when the family turn up in Scotland with Bridget as a widow, so it ties in with that.  I suspect he may have died in the famine or on the local works.  From Griffiths and the Tithes in any case I know they were tennants of the Madden family, and have recently found out their rent books and eviction records do survive for this period, and are held in the archives at PRONI Belfast, so hope to get there at some point and view them.

So some  progress....


Regards


Richard

[Jim I]

The parish records are a bit of a mess.  I am sure the priest made lots of mistakes when entering data.  Spelling seems non-existant before about the 1880s.  And I believe that one common mistake was the substitution of one name for another.  Whether his eye dropped a line or he mistook sponsors name for mother/father's or he misheard - I don't know but one advantage of transcribing all the records is that you can start to see groups of people into family groups.  And sometimes you can kind of figure out where a mistake may have been made.

As to the MAddens I too need to go to PRONI to do some work there.  Maybe we'll bump into each other?

What I really like is this thought.  John Madden burned the cottages of at least one of my ancestor after they were evicted, so he obviously had a poor opinion of them.  Picture my delight then when my son was accepted into Trinity Hall Cambridge - the same college as the high and might John Madden! -- lovely!  Peasants in the hallowed halls!

[richeds79]

Wasn't one of the Maddens stark staring mad Jim? I don't know too much about the Maddens, most of the info on landlords in the area always seems to come back to the notorious Lord Leitrim. I do though seem to remember reading Colonel Madden fought a duel with one of his election opponents. Clearly seems a nasty bit of work in any case if he was burning out the tennants, and opens the eyes a bit further on what the poor ancestors had to put up with.  I did find some newspaper reports from Cloone at the time of the famine a while back, and the place was by all acounts in  uproar, with the 'Molly McGuires' and the landlords at virtual war with each other. Nice to hear your familys had a bit of poetic justice, even if it is all these years on!

Thanks too for clarifying about the state of the Cloone registers. I know this is stupid question, but presumably they are in Latin too?

As it happens I have a friend in Belfast I've been promising to visit for over a year, who lives literally two streets away from the archive, so I must get myself over there at some point!