David Edwards

[WhereRthey]

I'm searching for my Gt gt gt grandfather - known to be DAVID EDWARDS, RADS.
His daughter gave his occupation as : farmer on marriage cert.
His daughter Anne (Anna Maria?) was born c1825.  I have found someone with her name (15 yrs - farm servant) on the 1841 census in parish of Abbeycwmhir and have found much information after her marriage in Llanfihangel Rhydithon in 1844 - but would appreciate any information on her parents or siblings.
Any suggestions for search really welcomed.

[Arranroots]

Hi WhereRthey - welcome to Rootschat!   

What information do you have on the marriage certificate - witnesses, address of Anne etc?  who did she marry?

Where does she say she was born in later censuses?

Have you checked the IGI for Anne's birth? 

I wonder why you refer to her as Anna Maria?

Hoping to help.

Kind regards, Arranroots 

[WhereRthey]

Hi,
Many thanks for your interest.
Anna Maria was named as Ana Mariah Edwards on her marriage certificate.
On May 7 1844 she married Evan Powel (later he had two 'l's in his name). She lived at Kings Head Cottages, Llanfihangel Rhydithon and he lived at Dolau - very close to LL Rhydithon. They were married in St Michael's church, Llanfihangel Rhydithon. Her father's name was given as David Edwards,  farmer.   Evan's father was named as Evan Powel, Labourer.  The witnesses were Brian James and David Edwards. (I presume this was her father) He left his mark so presumably he could not write.

I have found 1851, 1861, 1871 & 1881 census - most give different places of birth and different ages so it is difficult to know if any of them are correct!

I found the couple on the 1851 census living at Llangunllo, Rads.
Evan Powel was 30, head, Ag Lab, born at Llanyre, Rads
Anna Maria was 26 born at Llanvihangall Rhython (the spelling on the census)
They had 4 daughters, Ann, Eliza, Sarah & Naomi.

1861 census living at Perloyne (Purlogue), Rads
Evan Powell was 44 Ag lab born at Llanvionels, Rads (Where is that?)
Hannamaria, wife, 36, born at same place
They now have Naomi, Elizabeth, William & Mary as children living with them.

The 1871 census is from Pembridge, Herefordshire.
Evan Powell, head, 48 yrs, Farm Lab, born Llandewy, Radnor
Ann Powell, wife, 45, born Radnor, Disserth
George Powell, son, 1 yr, born Radnor, Norton

Ann (50 yrs) appears to have died in 1880 (according to Register of deaths: Reg. dist: Weobley 6a 402)

1881 census Eardisland, Herefordshire
Evan Powell, head, Widower, 66 yrs, born Radnorshire, Knighton
George Powell, son, 11 yrs, scholar,  born Radnorshire, Norton.

I have looked up the Parish records for all the places mentioned above as places of birth for the parents and all the children named on these censues.
Apart from Naomi & Sarah, none of them seem to have been baptised - very inconvenient!!! I know from the places of birth of all the children and places of census that the family moved around a lot (goes with the job I expect) and always to very rural locations - so probably difficult or inconvenient  to arrange baptisms?

I also looked up burials, marriages etc and earlier census forms (1841) but cannot prove if these 'belong' to my family above.

I found a David Edwards (with dtr Ann) in Llanfihangel Rhydithon on 1841 & 1851 census but the ages are wrong. There is a David Edwards & family at Cwmddeudwr too - but no dtr Ann.

I did find an Ann Edwards on an 1841 census of Parish of Abbeycwmhir, aged 15yrs (fits the bill!) working as a farm servant at Bron yr efail farm, parish of Abbeycwmhir.  I wondered if this was her true age or had it been rounded up?   However, I still  can't prove she is connected.  It is the same parish as Evan Powel (20yrs) below so perhaps there may be a connection?

I also found an Evan Powel 20yrs, Ag Lab, Evan Powell 55 yrs, Ag lab,  Sarah Powell 55 yrs, Elizabeth Powel 18 yrs, Sarah Powel 4 months on 1841 census of Abbeycwmhir - address 'Camp' Gollon township - but can't prove they are my ancestors either.
This Parish is next to Llandewy Ystradenni - and very close to Dolau & Kings Head cottages where my ancestors were living in 1844.

The only lead I have now is another David Edwards of Medwalleth Township, Llanfihangel Beguildy, Lower Beguildy, Rads.
I found this census while I was searching at the Powys Archives and didn't (regretably) follow it up - so now do not have access to Parish records. (Well, can't find any online or any that are published so that I can buy them) I wondered if, perhaps, I had been persuing the wrong Llanfihangel for the birth of Ann Edwards? (They give the place of birth of their first two daughters as Llanfihangel too on 1851 census)
Or perhaps they just didn't know???

1841 census Medwalleth Township
This is for a David Edwards 45 yrs Ag Lab born in Rads
Ann Edwards 30 yrs born in Rads
Elizabeth Edwards 4yrs
Mary Edwards 8 yrs.

Ho 107 Piece 1455 Bk 3 Parish Llanfihangel Beguildy, Lower Beguildy, En Dis 5  Folio 23 Page 17, line 17

I am hoping that the wife, Ann, was a little older than stated and that they had a daughter, Ann, who perhaps was in service (as a farm servant?) and so not named on this census. (I'm desperate and clutching at straws!)

I have searched IGI online as well as many Parish records of places mentioned in censuses.

So, those are all the facts and I'm out of inspiration!  Can you help me form a strategy for finding Ann's Edwards' family?  I would be very grateful for any help.
Thank you for reading all this - I can attach census images if necessary.
Looking forward to hearing from you.

[Arranroots]

Well, Brian JAMES is the parish clerk! 

Is the 1841 David you found the shopkeeper?

I would quite fancy him, cos his other daughter is called Naomi, which is a nice coincidence.  Also the address given for this family in 1851 is Kingshead.

The only catch is that the daughter Anne is at home in 1851 & I think you say you have found her with her husband?

I am sure you are bearing in mind that Ann's age would have been rounded down in 1841?

Could just be that she is enumerated twice...

kind regards, Arranroots 

[WhereRthey]

Whew!
That was quick!  and thorough!

I hadn't noticed the address as 'Kings Head' - very astute of you - and now I think I will have to rethink...
(I visited this address last week & took a photo of the cottages - it is difficult to imagine parents and so many children all cramped into such a tiny cottage! Perhaps they used two or three - there were about 10 - all tiny and all joined together)

Many of (this) David Edward's children have the same names as the children Evan & Ann Powell gave to their children - Ann, Elizabeth, Sarah, Naomi, Eliza, William etc.  Is this a sort of proof too? 

But how do I reconcile the Ann Edwards as of 'full age' on the marriage certificate with the Ann baptised in 1829?  Could the baptism have been so much later than the birth?  Curiouser and curiouser....

I'll go back and think it all over again.  Perhaps if I find the birth registration of Evan & Ann's first daughter Ann all will be explained... I've found a few on the GRO but the one I favoured gave the D.O.B. as a couple of months after the marriage - so I ignored that one!  Perhaps it may explain why Ann Edwards' age may not be of 'full age' at the time of the marriage at all but perhaps slightly younger?

Anyway, many thanks for your observations and suggestions they do give me more to think about.

[Arranroots]

"I think I'll have to think it out again" - Fagin, Oliver

 

It certainly isn't 100%, but you could make a case, based on "premature" birth (!) and late baptism etc.

Let us know if you find any further information.

A 

[WhereRthey]

Just had another thought!

Perhaps if Ann Edwards (Farm servant, 15 yrs) came home for a visit on the night of the 1841 census?  She could be enumerated twice?

As Evan & Ann Powel said their first two children were born in Llanfihangel Rhydithon, perhaps Ann came back to her parent's home for the birth?

Would they automatically refer to her as Ann, dtr?  And the enumerator put her down as 'Edwards'?  

But, then,  where are her four children on the census?  And the other census was in Llangunllo - a bit of a walk if she had to be in two places at once!  

Oh dear!  I can't get my head round this now.... I'll have to sleep on it!
What a conundrum!!! But thanks again.

[Puffcat]

No or late baptisms.  A thought.
Could they have been Chapel ?
Baptists do not have children christened when small but leave it until later in life. 

[WhereRthey]

Hi,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner to thank you for your help - I'm fairly new and couldn't remember how to post a reply!  Doh!!!  No wonder my ancestors stay elusive!

Anyway, many thanks for your reply.  I seem to have found others in the family baptised in the C of E religion, but your suggestions certainly bears thinking about.  Now all I have to do is find out where to look for records for Baptists/Chapels etc.

Another suggestion I have been given is that perhaps the relevant page of the Parish records is missing.  I'm not sure how to find out about that either. 

Of course, the mother may have been visiting her family at the time of  the birth but as it was apparently her third child, I don't think this is the reason for the lack of entry in her local Church records.

I'll have to think around it some more!
Thank you for your suggestion though.